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Scoop Feedback: Response To Falun Gong PRs

Three items of feedback from a Scoop reader objecting to aspects of the case presented by the Falun Gong concerning their oppression by the Chinese Govt.

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Regarding Falun Gong's recent media activity

Dear Editor:

I have been following the Falun Gong story since March. I researched this matter after being given a flyer in Chinatown - and I have found many things wrong with this allegation.

In my humble opinion Falun Gong's actions not only discredited their own cause, they also unnecessarily detracted from honest examination of China's human rights record.

FLG's nefarious indictment muddles the rational discussion of issues such as China's legal reform, and Chinese society's moral and ethical standards on dignity and treatment of the condemned, or even death penalty crossing the cultural divide.

In that spirit, I would like to bring to your attention some contrarian facts surrounding Falun Gong's recent media activity:

(all citations are at the end)

- Mr. Mike Stekeetee of The Australian had reported in April US congressional investigation finding the allegation a gross exaggeration. An US Congressional Executive Committee on China (CECC) brief subsquently commented on veracity of Falun Gong's claim of genocide.

- US State Department investigated and found the allegation not credible.

- Harry Wu, directory of Laogai Research Foundation in DC, investigated the allegation and found the witness unreliable

- Melbourn Australia-based dissident Mr. Zhang HeTse of China Aid Online (?) has come forward and supported Harry Wu's finding, while pointing out FLG's phone call evidence is fake.

- The hospital Falun Gong accused in reality is a joint venture with a company affaliated with the Malaysian government. Malay officials have documented prior year visit, and the facility has been open to public for years.

- Mr. David Kilgour, author of a Canadian FLG report and a long time prosecutor, ignored obvious misrepresentation of evidence in his own report that used autopsy photo as evidence or organ harvesting.

Specifically, Kilgour report Appendix 12, Case 1, involving Mr. Wang Bin. Even according to Falun Gong's own evidence, an autopsy was performed as part of Mr. Wang's murder investigation held by local authority.

However, Kilgour report ignored the misrepresentation and recoreded it as evidence of organ removal, ommitting the fact organ removal by medical examiner during autopsy is routine.

In reality the photo proves the opposit is true.

- Mr. Kilgour can not divorce himself from the fact his report is sponsored by a Falun Gong group in Washington DC that is evidentely political.

In conclusion, while China's human rights record should be examined, writing allegory of "Schindler's List" is not the way.

If we in the west can not be precise with our accusation, only resort of nefarious political indictment and sensational fabrication. Why should anyone take what we say seriousely?


Charles Liu
Seattle, WA


- US State Department Investigation

- Translation of Harry Wu's open letter regarding his investigation of Falun Gong's accusation

- Comment by Mr. Zhang Hetse on Harry Wu's open letter (untranslated)

- Congressional Executive Committee on China brief commented on the reliability of the Kilgour report

- Malaysian government document on Sujiatun hospital visit

- Kilgour Report, Appendix 12 Case 1, Mr. Wang Bin from a 2000 FAlun Gong article

(Additional references available in my blog:"


Chinese Dissident Harry Wu Publishes Analysis Contradicting Matas/Kilgour Report

Dear Editor:

I would like to offer you additional details on Chinese dissident Mr. Harry Wu's investigation.

In my humble opinion Chinese government's wrongs in no way exhonorate Falun Gong's political propaganda.

FLG's fabrication and twist of facts not only discredited their own cause, it also muddled the field for serious examination of China's human rights issues, such as their moral, ethical standards in dignity and treatment of death row inmates.

Promotion of such outrageous claims made in anticipation of Chinese leader's April stateside visit (and now spun into propaganda for boycott of 2008 Olympics) have also detracted from those who turely are concerned about China's progress and 1.3 billion people's well being.

It is in this spirit I object to Kilgour report. For example where's the phone bill for the alleged hundreds of phone calls to Chinese hospitals Mr. Kilgour reviewed? How did Kilgour mistaken those autopsy photos as evidence of organ removal? Or forgotten organ removal by medical examiner is routine? after a long career as a prosecutor?

Here's Harry Wu's analysis contradicting Kilgour report:

"[Analysis & Opinion] Without concrete and substantiated evidence, such reports are not credible. Also, the description of "underground concentration camp" is in conflict with what Peter and Annie said. I spent 19 years as a political prisoner in China's forced labor camps and have experienced many transfers. No transfer occurred like the one described.

III. Conclusion

1) No concrete or substantiated evidence, such as documents or photos, have been provided to support the witness' statements.

2) Both Annie and Peter, who are now in the US, refuse to reveal their real names despite that fact that they no longer reside in China. This makes it difficult for the international community to corroborate their testimonies and makes their statements less strong. Since they claim to have knowledge about thousands of people whose lives may be in danger it is essential that they be more open about who they are and what they know.

3) The claim that Falun Gong practitioners' live organs are being harvested is diverting attention from real, substantiated facts. China has been harvesting organs from executed prisoners for more than 20 years and this has been proven. This is an issue that the Falun Gong never mentions, and its allegations about live harvesting or reverse-organ donations remain unconfirmed.

4) The Chinese Communist Government is an evil regime that commits many atrocities including the persecution of the Falun Gong. However, the logic does follow that because the government has outlawed the spiritual group it has created Sujiatun and other concentration camps to kill and harvest the organs of live Falun Gong practitioners. Without proof this is not logical reasoning.

5) Those who doubt the existence of Sujiatun, including myself, should not be criticized as "obstacles to the investigation" or be accused of "cooperating with Beijing".

6) Today, there is not much national or international attention to the Sujiatun issue. This does not imply that the international community does not value human rights. Nor does it mean that the world has been pressured by Beijing to remain silent, or that is has taken the side of the Communist regime. When I received Falun Gong's report, I personally arranged for Sujiatun to be investigated right away, include the hospital, Kangjiasan Prison and Jiutai Laojiao Camp. Officers and staff from the US embassy in Beijing and the US Consulate in Shenyang visited the Sujiatun site two times. Overseas media also sent reporters to investigate the case. These actions show that people treated the Sujiatun issue very seriously. However, the Falun Gong claims that "Sujiatun Auschwitz" exists have yet to substantiate and appear to be nothing more than political propaganda."


Charles Liu
Seattle, WA


Pathologist review of Falun Gong's photo evidence

Dear Editor:

I would like to bring your attention to details in the Kilgour report, specifically Appendix 12, Case 1.

I have shown the Kilgour report, and the case involving Mr. Wang Bin, to Dr. Friedlander, Chairman of Pathology Dept. at Kansas City University of Medicine (a fellow blogger), and he disagreed with the Kilgour report.

(Dr. Friedlander's email is at the end of the message.)

I question how can a long time prosecutor like Kilgour, no doubt handled murder cases, miss this:

- The case mentioned Mr. Wang's brain was removed. There is no such thing as brain transplant.

- The victim, Mr. Wang, appeared in 11/2000 ClearWisdom (another Falun Gong media outlet) article but no organ harvesting was mentioned:

The article statd autoply was performed as part of Mr. Wang's murder investigation, and jail official implicated in Mr. Wang's murder was arrested as result of this investigation.

- Organ removal is typical of autopsy. The elaborate 'Y' incisions on the neck (where no neck organ can be harvested for transplantation) is to reveal the hyoid bone for evidence of strangulation. Removal of heart and brain is also consistent with Rokitansky method.

In fact the autopsy was performed and murder investigation held by the Chinese government proves the opposit is ture. I can only surmise Falun Gong mis-represented the autopsy photo to elicit emotional response.

Matter of fact all the gory photos Falun Gong used in their 3/2006 story are recycled from old stories. Another rehashed old story is of Wang Yufeng, and in 2005 original story had no mention of organ revoval.


Charles Liu
Seattle, WA

p.s. Review of Appendix 12, Case 1 by Dr. Friedlander, Chairman of KCU School of Medicine Pathology Dept.:

From: Ed Friedlander

To: Charles Liu

Subject: RE: pathology quesiton: unusual incisions around neck

Looking over your note, I realize I did not answer your last question. Of course it is routine in an autopsy to remove heart and brain. They may be saved for examination later and/or to be viewed by colleagues.

It sounds to me as if you are genuinely interested in getting at the truth. I salute you for this. However, the individual who has prepared these documents has omitted basic information that would help lay readers judge the truth of the allegations. This alone invites an unfavorable conclusion.

Around the world, forensic pathologists have risked their own lives investigating atrocity reports. The sect could be served better than it has been by this set of documents.

From: Ed Friedlander

To: Charles Liu

Subject: RE: pathology quesiton: unusual incisions around neck

The claim that this is a torture photo is obvious bullsh-t. It almost certainly represents slapdash autopsy technique as it's carried out in China, where there's no accountability of a physician to a family. The huge disfiguring incisions would make the procedure faster and easier for the lazy pathologist.

The incisions are autopsy incisions. The baseball stitch sutures confirm this. Further, you're right -- if this was organ trafficking, there would be no reason to take the neck organs.

Best wishes.

From: scalpel_blade

Subject: Re: pathology quesiton: unusual incisions around neck

Thanks for sharing. This looks like an inexperienced person's autopsy technique. The prosector didn't take the shoulder incisions far enough, and then cut the neck vertically down the middle to get the hyoid, tongue, etc., etc., etc., like they do in Europe. In some countries, this may be standard. It'd make things easier; I just do like to save the neck in case the family wants to view the body in a V-neck or something. Best wishes.


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