ORAL QUESTIONS

QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS

Question No. 1—Prime Minister

1. Hon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader—National) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government's statements and actions?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes, particularly my statement today that the coalition Government has agreed to lift the refugee quota from 1,000 to 1,500 this term.

Hon Simon Bridges: Is she concerned that Westpac's index of consumer confidence is at a six-year low?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: This is a Government working hard to lift economic indicators across all categories. I will note an expectation, as well, that as a result of the investment in the Families Package—$5.5 billion—our expectation is that we will see stimulus and an increase in consumer spending as a result of that. Given it came in in June, I expect it's only a matter of time before we see that coming through.

Hon Simon Bridges: How can she say that when the survey itself says, and I quote, "[The] Families package … has presumably been outweighed by other concerns, such as rising petrol prices and cooling housing markets."?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It is still early days. Obviously, it has only recently been implemented. It is also a package that ramps up over time, particularly the Best Start element of the payment. Relative to some of the increase in costs that families have been experiencing, of course, we've been working hard to also address issues like housing affordability. The member will know that as measured by our child poverty statistics, housing affordability has a considerable impact on the overall incomes and discretionary incomes of families.

Hon Simon Bridges: To what extent has her plan to increase petrol prices reduced consumer confidence?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Look, we absolutely acknowledge that as the excise has increased—as with the last Government, who increased excise a number of times—that, of course, does have an impact at the pump. We acknowledge that, but we are utilising that increase in order to invest back in areas where consumers have asked us to invest, to make sure that their roads are safe—in the case of the East Coast, to make sure that they are properly sealed and serviced—that their very most basic of needs are met, and, of course, to also invest in public transport. We are losing productivity in Auckland because our roads are clogged. That's why we are making such a huge investment in that city, as well.

Hon Simon Bridges: So to the question I asked: to what extent has her plan to increase petrol prices reduced consumer confidence?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I acknowledge the impact on consumers, but I also acknowledge the benefit.

Hon Simon Bridges: In light of the comment by Westpac that I've already quoted—that the Government's Families Package appears to have been outweighed by other concerns in most consumers' minds—is it fair to say her Government is giving with one hand but taking a bit more with the other?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No, I don't think that's fair. When you look, the fact is that well over 300,000 families will, by the time the package has been implemented, receive, on average, $75 a week. When I compare that, for instance, to the boost of roughly around the $20 mark that that last Government claimed was going to make the biggest impact you could imagine—for them to then belittle $75 on average says to me that they do not understand how significant that boost is for families. I know it's having a significant impact because I get letters about it every single week.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Talking about petrol costs and their effect, who was on television on Sunday night in a protest about money not being spent on the road north of Tauranga for the last nine years?

SPEAKER: Order! Order! The Prime Minister does not have responsibility for who appears on television.

Hon Simon Bridges: How can the Prime Minister say things are getting so much better when under her Government in the last quarter, the cost of living, according to Statistics New Zealand, is rising higher than wages, according to the quarterly employment survey?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: This is a Government who is so vested in demonstrating the impact that our policies will have that we have at least been willing to hold ourselves to account, for instance, on the outcome of the household income surveys, by embedding in legislation child poverty indicators, and that Government was never ever ever willing to hold itself to account on the tangible difference that we make, on a range of measures, to household incomes, particularly with children in poverty. That is how committed we are.

Hon Simon Bridges: Won't she face it—that the cost of living in terms of the highest petrol prices ever in New Zealand, rent increases per week of $15 more, and many other costs besides are going up at the moment faster and higher than wages?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: In the 11 months that we have been in office, we have already started building affordable homes. We have made sure that rentals are going to be warm and dry. We have put $5.5 billion back into low and middle income earners' back pockets by saying that those top income earners did not need a tax cut. We have been redirecting the incomes to New Zealanders who needed it the most, and that is how we have been addressing the cost of living.

Hon Simon Bridges: What does she say it means when the confidence that New Zealanders have in the Government's ability to manage the economy is at a six-year low and business confidence is at a decade low, particularly given the incredibly strong economy that she inherited?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I've actually spoken on this a number of times. We do have a situation where the confidence levels are exactly the inverse of what some of the economic indicators are demonstrating to us. We have an economic plan that moves away from simply trading on houses and relying on population growth and volatile commodities—as that last Government did—to, instead, investing in the productive economy, adding value to our exports, and expanding the number of export markets for our exporters. We have a plan for the future that will give us a sustainable, inclusive economy, and I am proud of it.

• Question No. 2—Housing and Urban Development

2. JO LUXTON (Labour) to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: What reports has he seen on the New Zealand housing market?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development): CoreLogic has reported that one in every four homes sold in New Zealand last month was sold to a first-home buyer. This is the highest rate for first-home buyers since 2006-07. This is a very good early result for our plan to increase homeownership in New Zealand.

Jo Luxton: How has the Government supported first-home buyers to purchase their first home?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: The Government has extended the brightline test and passed amendments to the Overseas Investment Act to reduce speculation in the housing market. We've increased wages through the Families Package, and sound economic management has kept interest rates low. As KiwiBuild ramps up, we look forward to seeing more young families moving into their first homes.

Jo Luxton: What steps will the Government take to support first-home buyers to purchase their first home?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, on top of the demand side measures that I mentioned and KiwiBuild, we're also working on new ways to finance the infrastructure that will allow our towns and cities to grow. That will increase the supply of housing. Our Government is committed to rebalancing the housing market in favour of homebuyers and away from speculators.

• Question No. 3—Prime Minister

3. Hon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader—National) to the Prime Minister: Will she release today all communications between herself, her staff, and her Ministers in respect of Derek Handley and his proposed appointment to the role of Government Chief Technology Officer?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Mr Speaker, my office has received a number of Official Information Act (OIA) requests, including from the Opposition, and is working on a response to those. We will release that information in accordance with the provisions of the Act once it has been compiled and once it has been processed.

Hon Simon Bridges: What did Derek Handley's text message to her say?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Mr Speaker, I would have to go from my recollection. [Interruption]

SPEAKER: Order!

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: But I can off the back—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: Order! Order! The Prime Minister will resume her seat. This is a matter of some seriousness. It's a matter which I've had a number of representations on and I'm told that the House takes it seriously. I want to be able to hear the answer.

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Mr Speaker, I would have to go from my recollection. But my recollection is that he mentioned that the Chief Technology Officer (CTO) role had been mentioned to him. Again, as I said, I did not directly reply to that message, and it was received in April.

Hon Simon Bridges: Did she flat out ignore his text—not even an emoji?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Mr Speaker, I did not even send an emoji.

Hon Simon Bridges: Was there more than one text from or to Derek Handley from the Prime Minister?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The text that I received, again, as I said, was in April. I did not directly reply to that text message on that day or engage with him on the CTO role. On the CTO role, I did not engage with Mr Handley via text message.

Hon Simon Bridges: Well, were there any other texts between the Prime Minister and Derek Handley?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Mr Speaker, as I acknowledged the very moment I was asked this question, I have known Mr Handley for a number of years and have had correspondence with him for a number of years.

Hon Simon Bridges: What other communications by any medium—Gmail, WhatsApp, and the like—were there between the Prime Minister and Derek Handley?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Mr Speaker, as a consequence of the member's question, I have had my office check. Mr Handley sent me an unsolicited email to my private email on 7 June, which I did not open and which I did not reply to. I'm advised by my staff that it informed me that he'd submitted an application for the role. But, again, it was not something I opened, saw, or replied to.

Hon Simon Bridges: When will the text, and that Gmail she's referred to, be released?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Mr Speaker, as I said in my primary answer, my office is currently working through the OIA that was received, and we will reply in accordance with the Official Information Act.

• Question No. 4—Finance

4. Hon AMY ADAMS (National—Selwyn) to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by the statements, actions, and policies of the Government in relation to the New Zealand economy?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): Yes, and I note today that the head of banking and finance at KPMG stated this morning that, "The economy is going better and growing than the level of sentiment about it."

Hon Amy Adams: Does he share the view of Westpac economists that the latest fall in consumer confidence to a six-year low gives genuine cause for concern about the health of the economy; and, if not, why has he repeatedly used it as a benchmark for the health of the economy?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Mr Speaker, I've used many different benchmarks for the health of the economy. What I would say to the member is I also do share Westpac's finding in today's survey that showed a lift in the current financial conditions in households in the lower income bracket, the very group of people neglected for the last nine years.

Hon Amy Adams: With the Tax Working Group's first report coming out tomorrow, will he guarantee New Zealanders that any change to the tax system will be fiscally neutral, or is this just going to be a cash grab for the Government?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Mr Speaker, this is the interim report of the Tax Working Group. They will make their recommendations. What we have said consistently is that any recommendations that the Government takes up will not come into force until the 2021 year, after the next election.

Hon Amy Adams: Does the Minister know the difference between Crown financial statements and GDP?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: That was asked of me yesterday, and I continue to understand the difference between them.

Hon Amy Adams: So why, then, in an answer to the question from the Deputy Prime Minister asking him exactly what the difference was, did he respond that the difference was that Crown financial statements look back one year and GDP only looks back a quarter?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I said that the difference—

Hon Amy Adams: Check Hansard.

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, OK, so there may have been a slip of the tongue in the Hansard. I haven't looked at that. I haven't looked at that. But what I know for sure is that the trend in GDP in New Zealand—[Interruption] listen up; listen up, Simon. The trend in GDP in New Zealand—

SPEAKER: Order! What we'll have now is we'll have a bit of hush over here, and we will have people being addressed properly from this side.

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I know is that the trend of GDP declining in New Zealand began at the beginning of 2017, under that Government. The time it will take to transition to a sustainable and productive economy will be some time, but it will be a whole lot less than nine years.

Hon Simon Bridges: Does anyone in the Government know the difference between GDP and the Crown accounts, or is no one running the show?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: On this side of the House, we're very aware of who's running the show—I'm not sure who is over there.

• Question No. 5—Social Development

5. PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour) to the Minister for Social Development: What is the significance of passing the bills divided from the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill yesterday?

Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): The passing of these bills was almost 80 years to the day since the first Labour Government introduced the Social Security Act in 1938. In his speech at the time, Michael Joseph Savage said, "the people's well-being is the highest law, and so far as this Government is concerned we know no other." By passing this legislation we have laid the essential foundations we need to build a fairer and more accessible welfare system that upholds the dignity of all and ensures that, in line with this Government's priorities, the people's well-being is once again the highest law.

Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Why is it significant for women that the bills divided from the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill were passed yesterday?

Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: It is fitting that we passed this legislation in the week of the 125th anniversary of women's suffrage in New Zealand. We know that women still undertake the majority of parenting and caring duties in our society, which are often undervalued. Women are also overrepresented in the welfare system, making up 92 percent of those on sole parent support and 57 percent of all beneficiaries in New Zealand. These women and their children deserve fair, non-judgmental treatment that doesn't stigmatise them because of their circumstances. Certainty in legislation is a step towards ensuring that they get the support they need.

Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What does the passing of this legislation mean for the future of social security in New Zealand?

Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The legislation is now easier for people to use and understand. This will benefit New Zealanders in need of support now and in the future. It also provides a solid platform for the welfare overhaul that all of Government has committed to undertake to ensure that our welfare system is fair, accessible, respectful, and focused on maximising the potential of everyone who uses it. As my colleague the Hon Nanaia Mahuta has said to me, it's about sweeping the floor before we put down the new furniture, and I can't wait to put down the new furniture.

• Question No. 6—Transport

6. JAMI-LEE ROSS (National—Botany) to the Minister of Transport: Did the New Zealand Transport Agency commence a process of procurement for the Tauranga Northern Link project; if so, what decisions, if any, have been taken to halt, suspend, or modify that procurement process since 26 October 2017?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development): The New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) had asked for registrations of interest to build the Tauranga Northern Link, but no contracts had been entered into. In answer to the second part of the question, when the Government came into office NZTA advised us that a 8.2c a litre excise increase would be needed to pay for the existing unfunded promises made by the former Government, let alone the $10 billion of expressways that National had campaigned on. This was not sustainable, especially as increased investment in safety, regional roads, and public transport is so badly needed. So the Transport Agency has decided to re-evaluate future expressway projects, including the Tauranga Northern Link, to ensure that they deliver value for money. At the same time, we have invested $4.3 billion in safety and boosted regional road funding by $600 million.

Jami-Lee Ross: Why did he make the funding decision to reduce the State highway improvement budget, which has resulted in this project being shelved—a project that would have saved lives on a stretch of road that has seen 86 serious and death crashes in the recent past years?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, I reject the member's assertion that I made that decision, but let me say this: I agree with the people of Tauranga that we need to fix the bloody road. The number of crashes is unacceptable. New housing was allowed to be built along that highway while the road was neglected. We are investing $65 million right now on State Highway 2 between Waihī and Ōmokoroa to make this stretch of road safer. That includes putting a wider centre median strip in place to keep vehicles apart, widening the road shoulders to give drivers more room, installing roadside barriers, and making 26 intersections safer on that stretch of highway.

Jami-Lee Ross: Given he says he didn't make the funding decisions, was he sitting next to Fergus Gammie when he was asked, "Did the agency make any changes to the procurement processes for the Tauranga Northern Link in anticipation of the Government's policy statement on land transport being issued?" and Mr Gammie replied with, "The short answer's yes."?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, of course the short answer is yes. Our Government, just like the former Government, set the high-level goals for the transport policy, set the spending bands within the National Land Transport Programme, but we leave—unlike the former Government, who love to practise pork-barrel politics and politicise the spending of billions of dollars of transport money—the road engineering decisions to the experts, so that they can do their job free of political interference.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: When was the idea for the Tauranga Northern Link first proposed, given it's apparently such an urgent priority for the Opposition now?

SPEAKER: The member is responsible for the first part of the question.

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: In 1997 an options report on the route was completed, and the route was designated in 2001. In 2009 the Bay of Plenty District Council included it in their regional land transport plan.

Jami-Lee Ross: Did he play pork-barrel politics himself when he announced in May that Cabinet had agreed to launch a procurement process for the Auckland tramways?

Clayton Mitchell: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Look, I think the member's been here long enough to know that he can't preface a question with a statement such as that one, and he should be asking the question quite directly. That's Standing Order—

SPEAKER: No, no. I think when Ministers use those expressions, then they're subject to questioning, even though it might prima facie be out of order.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Supplementary question.

SPEAKER: No, no. We've got the question to be answered first.

Jami-Lee Ross: I should ask it again, Mr Speaker.

SPEAKER: No. The Minister should answer it.

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: No.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: If the Bay of Plenty District Council included that in the Land Transport Plan in 2009, how much of the Tauranga Northern Link was built between 2009 and election day 2017?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Not a single metre.

Hon Simon Bridges: What of the following is incorrect: that the Transport Agency had fully funded a four-lane Tauranga Northern Link; that earlier this year it was out on a tender for the project, and that the Minister instructed them to stop that tender and stop the four-lane highway earlier this year?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: The third part of that question.

Todd Muller: Will he commit here today to drive from Ōmokoroa to Tauranga to experience first-hand that road, like my constituents do every day?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I can't commit to that, because I am busy making sure that the Transport Agency, as an urgent priority, gets on with re-evaluating that project so that we can make the safety improvements on that highway that that Government failed to do over nine years and has spent the last nine months scaremongering about.

• Question No. 7—Education

7. Hon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central) to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by his decision to legislate to "do away" with communities of online learning; if so, why has he not proposed a replacement system?

Hon TRACEY MARTIN (Acting Minister of Education): Yes, I stand by the Government's decision to repeal the extension of communities of online learning (COOLs). The coalition Government is maintaining the existing system.

Hon Nikki Kaye: How many parents in rural communities were consulted on his decision to legislate to do away with communities of online learning?

Hon TRACEY MARTIN: There was a consultation group taking place, but it was by representative groups, which included NetNZ, the Ombudsman, and Te Aho o Te Kura Pounamu, and a range of individual submitters expressed the concerns that the COOLs would not be required to teach the national curriculum or employ registered teachers. If the member would like a breakdown of the individual submitters, if she'd like to submit that in writing, I'll have my office prepare that for her.

Hon Nikki Kaye: Will he guarantee—

SPEAKER: Order! It's a "she" at the moment.

Hon Nikki Kaye: Well, because she's answering on behalf of?

SPEAKER: No, she's not. She's the Acting Minister.

Hon Nikki Kaye: OK. Will she guarantee that the Minister of Education will pass a new law to provide greater access to funding and quality online learning opportunities in this term of Government?

Hon TRACEY MARTIN: What I can guarantee for the member is that this Government will now go out and consult with the general public, with the education sector, with the Virtual Learning Network, with NetNZ, and with all others, as the previous Government should have done before they decided to override the current system that is delivering digital online learning for our students.

Hon Nikki Kaye: In light of the Ministry of Education's statement that the Virtual Learning Network may disband as a result of this decision, will the Government guarantee the parents of these children that additional funding will be provided to ensure this doesn't happen?

Hon TRACEY MARTIN: As I've already mentioned, the Government is using the existing system. Nothing has changed, because the system that the previous Government wanted to put in wasn't going to take place until 31 December 2019. So we are currently working with the Virtual Learning Network, NetNZ, and all the other providers and the schooling sector to make sure that those students taking advantage of the online learning environment continue to do so and that we build a system that is useful and practical and realistic for New Zealand going into the future.

Hon Nikki Kaye: Just to repeat my question, in light of the Ministry of Education's statement that the Virtual Learning Network may disband as a result of this decision, will the Government guarantee additional funding so that these children get access to this service?

Hon TRACEY MARTIN: I'm not aware of the comment that the member is quoting, so I will go and find out. But I guarantee that member that this Government will work with parents, students, schools, the Virtual Learning Network, NetNZ, and all other areas of the sector to make sure that we make the most of the digital learning environment for our students from now and into the future.

• Question No. 8—Police

8. MARK PATTERSON (NZ First) to the Minister of Police: What recent announcements has he made regarding the allocation of police?

Hon STUART NASH (Minister of Police): Following the biggest single investment in policing as part of Budget 2018, last month the Deputy Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, and I announced our support for the Commissioner of Police's allocation of the 1,800 additional officers across all regions. This coalition Government is committed to expanding and resourcing a stronger police service and to giving them the support they need to prevent offending, enforce the law, and keep our communities safe. Thank you, New Zealand First.

Mark Patterson: What impact does the allocation of the 1,800 extra police officers have on our regions and our provinces?

Hon STUART NASH: Provincial communities across all regions will benefit from the roll-out of 1,800 extra police, 712 of whom will be allocated to the regions. Northland, for example, is getting a massive 25 percent increase in police numbers. Provincial towns in regions throughout Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Gisborne, Hawke's Bay, Taranaki, Whanganui, and Manawatū will gain between 17 percent and 27 percent more officers. Two hundred and sixty-four officers will be stationed throughout the South Island, including 88 additional officers to that member's southern district. This investment in policing is an investment in our provinces, our communities, and our neighbourhood.

Mark Patterson: How are female recruits reflected in the allocation of 1,800 extra police officers?

Hon STUART NASH: Since 1938, when the Statutes Amendment Act provided the authority to introduce women police, the New Zealand Police has continually strived for greater diversity across the country. Currently, 38 percent of the applicants to Police College are women. Of the 784 new police officers who've graduated since this Government was formed, 298 are women. This includes the historic Wing 315 in June, where women made up 54 percent of those who graduated. Police also advise that Māori women have one of the highest application success rates of any demographic group that apply to enter the Royal New Zealand Police College.

• Question No. 11 to Minister, 18 September

Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam): I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Yes, Mr Speaker, I'm sorry to interrupt proceedings, but we just need to be clear. Yesterday you removed some supplementaries from us because of an inappropriate comment made by the Hon Finlayson. That was reciprocated by a comment from the Rt Hon Winston Peters, to which you said, "I'll now be considering …", and then there was a Chris Penk interjection, and you said, "I'll now be considering Mr Penk's but not Mr Finlayson's inappropriate comments so I've cancelled that punishment." Mr Finlayson's punishment was the loss of six questions; Mr Penk's was the loss of three, so we're just a little concerned that we appear not to have the credit of between three and six questions that we were expecting.

SPEAKER: Well, I'm surprised it was only six. I thought it was more than that that Mr Finlayson lost, but whatever Mr Finlayson lost—sorry? [Speaker seeks advice] I mean, the number doesn't really matter because it was neutralised by the intervention from the Deputy Prime Minister which was just about as outrageous. So all we were left with was the loss of Mr Penk's questions, which was two. And that is the position which I understand—sorry? [Speaker receives advice] So, as a result of that, the National Party has 37 supplementaries today.

Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam): Sorry; we had carry-over questions. So do we lose the benefit of that? With all due respect, we should be six questions up on the 37. It should be 43.

SPEAKER: Well, it's my advice, and that is that the National Party did get some, you know, extra supplementaries yesterday, early in the piece; all of them were indicated to the whips and that they were used yesterday.

• Question No. 9—Health

9. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister of Health: Does he believe that women in the health sector should be paid what they are worth?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health): This Government is committed to lifting wages and to pay equity. That is why we have extended the care and support pay equity settlement to mental health and addiction workers; that is why district health boards were able to reach an agreement with nurses that delivered the biggest pay increase in a decade and a commitment to implement pay equity negotiations by the end of next year; that's why Budget 2018 included a $103 million package to better support community midwives, including an 8.9 percent increase in their fees. That's a significant boost for community midwives, who, if they handled what is generally considered a full-time caseload of 40 to 50 cases last year, received an average of $111,000. As I outlined at the start of my answer, we are making real progress on pay equity. The answer to the member's question is yes.

Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does he agree with the conclusion of the community midwifery co-design project in their November 2017 report on the worth of an independent community midwife?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: The Ministry of Health's advice on the recommendations of the co-design team was clear: we are concerned the proposed model would not uphold good practice and the proposed model is unlikely to be affordable for Government in the short or long term. I agreed with that advice. In particular, I was concerned that we needed to address what, in my view, are the unreasonable demands we've been routinely placing on our midwives that we don't put on other workforces. For example, under the current model, 24/7 on-call expectation is not regarded as unusual. The Ministry of Health and the New Zealand College of Midwives are meeting regularly to discuss ongoing issues in the sector and I welcome that sort of collaborative approach.

Hon Michael Woodhouse: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was not about the overall affordability of any changes to the funding model for midwives. My question was about whether the Minister agreed with the assessment of the value of an independent community midwife, and that wasn't addressed.

SPEAKER: I think it was.

Hon Michael Woodhouse: Is the Minister telling the House therefore that while he does agree that an independent community midwife is valued according to the recommendation of that report, because it is in his view unaffordable, they're not going to get that value?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: No.

Hon Michael Woodhouse: Why did he stand before midwives and their supporters at their rally on 3 May saying he was listening carefully to their concerns, when he had already ruled out the recommendations of the co-design group four months earlier?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Because I was.

Hon Michael Woodhouse: What?

SPEAKER: Because he was.

• Question No. 10—State Services

10. Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) to the Minister of State Services: What are the dates and the contents of the work-related emails to and from former Minister Hon Clare Curran's private Gmail account, in relation to the appointment of the Government's Chief Technology Officer, that he referred to as having been handed over to the Chief Archivist in yesterday's Oral Question No 11?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Acting Minister of State Services): Mr Speaker, as I informed your office, this will be a slightly longer than normal answer. There are three email exchanges. The first: on 11 August, where Derek Handley emails Clare Curran about the Chief Technology Officer (CTO) position and questions about the role of the CTO, including resourcing for the role and potential conflicts of interest. On 14 August, Clare Curran replies to that email, confirming a call to discuss these matters. On 15 August, Derek Handley replies to that, confirming times for the call.

The second exchange: on 19 August, Clare Curran emails Derek Handley regarding logistics around the next step on the process of appointment, including the content of any public statements that might be made, and refers to contract discussions with the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA). On 20 August, Derek Handley responds to that email to Clare Curran about those issues, including the contact he has had with DIA and management of conflicts of interest.

The third exchange: on 21 August, Clare Curran emails Derek Handley regarding issues that would be on the work plan of the CTO and attaches some relevant background documents on those issues. On the same day, Derek Handley responds to Clare Curran, acknowledging the material and referring to the discussions that he is having with DIA.

I have sought and received an assurance from the former Minister that these email exchanges will be made available for release subject to the normal Official Information Act (OIA) processes.

Hon Dr Nick Smith: Will he publicly release or table those emails today, given his responsibilities as the "Minister of Open Government" and this Government's commitment to be the most open and transparent ever?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I believe I have explained the dates and the contents of the emails today. As I said at the end of my primary answer, those emails will be released in accordance with the rules of the OIA.

Hon Dr Nick Smith: Was there any inappropriate content in any of those emails between Mr Handley and Clare Curran over the appointment that influenced the Government's decision to not proceed with Mr Handley's appointment?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Government's decision not to proceed with the appointment does not relate to those emails.

Hon Dr Nick Smith: Does he agree with the statement "The only conclusion that can be drawn from Ministers using private Gmail addresses for Government business is that they have something to hide.", a statement made by Chris Hipkins in opposition; if so, what were Minister Curran and the Prime Minister doing having Government business communicated through a private Gmail account?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Oneof the things we learn on becoming Ministers is that we receive a lot of correspondence from a lot of different sources to a lot of different places, and, as I quoted in the House yesterday, Sir John Key, the former Prime Minister, acknowledged his use of a private email address for ministerial business.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: As a precedent for the Minister's judgment on these matters, has he seen inappropriate comment with respect to a Minister having to step down, such as an ACC case?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Mr Speaker, I'm—

SPEAKER: Order! Order! I think that's beyond the Minister.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister as to whether he had a precedent he is using as a measurement to judge by. I think it's a part of our recent history, and Ministers are entitled to have authoritative precedents to make their judgements on. That's why I put it before him.

SPEAKER: Yes, and if that question was asked to the Prime Minister, who had responsibility for the Minister stepping down, then I would've allowed it. This Minister does not have responsibility for his predecessor stepping down.

Hon Dr Nick Smith: Can the Minister reassure the House that there were no communications between the Prime Minister and former Minister Curran in respect of the appointment of the Chief Technology Officer?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In fact, I believe yesterday it was acknowledged that there were communications between the Prime Minister and Ms Curran, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, as would be expected for any major role.

• Question No. 11—Workplace Relations and Safety

11. Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour—New Lynn) to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What announcements has he made about pay equity?

Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety): Earlier today, along with my colleague the Minister for Women, I announced the introduction of the Equal Pay Amendment Bill, which makes it easier for workers in female-dominated industries to make a pay equity claim. It is appropriate to mark the 125th anniversary of universal suffrage with another milestone for women. After all, Kate Sheppard and the suffragists did say that pay equity was their next goal.

Dr Deborah Russell: What does the Equal Pay Amendment Bill do?

Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: It provides a clear and practical framework for parties to get around the table to settle pay equity claims. This is a better way to address pay equity. It's a much better match with the recommendations of the joint working group and significantly improves on the previous Government's attempt.

Dr Deborah Russell: How does the bill contribute to the well-being of New Zealanders and their families?

Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: Many of New Zealand's lowest-paid workers are women, and their skills, knowledge, and experience have not been adequately valued. The pay equity settlements right a wrong and provide a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. That's more money in Kiwis' pockets and more money for their families.

• Question No. 12—Housing and Urban Development

12. ANDREW BAYLY (National—Hunua) to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: Will Kiwi families be able to buy the new KiwiBuild houses and apartments coming on to the market?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development): Yes.

Andrew Bayly: Why did he not know the bank lending requirements before announcing the 39 square metre KiwiBuild apartments in Onehunga?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: This is a minor matter that was resolved in less than a day. The developer, NZ Living, had included the balcony and patios of the studios in his floor space calculations; the bank that was approached by the first-home buyer did not, and it was immediately rectified.

Marja Lubeck: What interest has there been in those Onehunga apartments?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, in just 48 hours, the KiwiBuild unit has received 91 ballot entries, including 16 for the studio apartments, and, just this last weekend, over 500 people went to the Onehunga showroom. First-home buyers are voting with their feet, and they're backing KiwiBuild.

Andrew Bayly: Why are people now getting turned down for bank loans due to the small size of KiwiBuild homes when he insisted six months ago that he was hammering out details with mortgage lenders?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: They're not being turned down for bank loans.

Andrew Bayly: Will he be putting himself forward as the keynote speaker to talk about his KiwiBuild apartments at the New Zealand tiny house conference, in Carterton?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, I won't, but I would say this: it is presumptuous and arrogant for the National Party to assume that all Kiwis want a 1950s stand-alone bungalow on a quarter-acre section in the suburbs, because, quite frankly, no one's doing that any more these days so try and keep up.

Marja Lubeck: What reports has he seen on the popularity of apartments?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, more and more Kiwi families are choosing to live in apartments so that they can be close to work, shops, cafes, and great transport connections. In the last five years, the number of consents issued for apartments has more than tripled in Auckland. We need to build our way out of the national housing crisis by building apartments, townhouses, units, flats, and the occasional stand-alone home. [Mr Bayly seeks further question]

SPEAKER: No, the member has no questions left.

• SPEAKER: Before we conclude oral questions, I want to seek the leave of the House to table two letters: one to me from the Chief Archivist, which I received this afternoon, and my reply. They relate to the Hon Clare Curran's Gmail records. Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none.

Documents, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.

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