Sunday 20th June, 2010

Q+A’s Paul Holmes interviews Labour MPs Charles Chauvel & Grant Robertson

The interview has been transcribed below. The full length video interviews and panel discussions from this morning’s Q+A can also be seen on tvnz.co.nz at, http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news

Q+A is repeated on TVNZ 7 at 9.10pm on Sunday nights and 10.10am and 2.10pm on Mondays.

CHARLES CHAUVEL & GRANT ROBERTSON interviewed by PAUL HOLMES

PAUL Well the expenses scandal continued this week with Labour Leader Phil Goff, coming back from China and decisively demoting three of his MPs. As a result of all the demotions there were some promotions, namely Charles Chauvel and Nanaia Mahuta to the front bench, and Grant Robertson very much a newbie to the second row, where he'll take on tertiary education, and of course National's Steven Joyce. Charles Chauvel for his part will take on Environment. Well what do they bring to their new roles? Good morning to Charles Chauvel and to Grant Robertson.

What changes for you both with your promotions? Charles.

CHARLES CHAUVEL – Labour MP
Well I've had the Climate Change spokespersonship for the last 18 months, so this is really just a chance to take on the wider environment role, address those issues like air quality, water quality, promoting recycling, and so it's a step up into as I say the wider role.

PAUL So it's more work?

CHARLES Yeah definitely more work.

PAUL Are you intimidated by the idea of sparring with Steven Joyce on Tertiary Education?

GRANT ROBERTSON – Labour MP
Oh no not at all, I think there's a lot of issues in Tertiary Education, very important part of our economy and our society. At the moment we've got universities shutting the door on new enrolments, Steven Joyce is standing there like a bystander at a car accident, and I think I need to take him on on that.

PAUL Well couldn’t we make the case there are far too many students, far too many silly courses, far too much expectation that a degree in something will get a job when it isn't going to?

GRANT Oh tertiary education should be seen as the engine room of the economy, and we look across the Tasman, in Australia they’ve invested over a billion dollars extra into tertiary education in the last two budgets. I think it's a real opportunity for us and shouldn’t be locking students out, we should be getting them in.

PAUL Expenses – has Labour been unfairly treated?

CHARLES Well I think you know Phil Goff really said what needed to be said last week. The matter's been dealt with, and I think no one's really come out well of it from any party.

PAUL It was disgraceful wasn’t it?

CHARLES Oh look if people are spending outside the rules, that’s wrong, it's inappropriate, and Phil dealt with that decisively as he said in your introduction, and I think we now need to move on with a high standard of transparency and accountability. We all know what that standard is now, and Phil's been very clear with us.

PAUL Chris Carter said a while back he's been persecuted by the public on this issue because he's gay. Do you agree with that?

CHARLES Oh look I think this issue's being dealt with because people are concerned about the amount of money that’s been spent. If people are behaving inappropriately then they will receive punishment.

PAUL You are both openly gay though, does that matter with the public now, with voters do you think?

CHARLES Well I think Paul what matters to people who come and ask us for help at our electorate offices every day that we're there, is whether we can do a good job with them on rising power prices, on the increased costs that they face. That’s not what people are concerned about.

PAUL Well let me put it to you this way, Matthew Hooton, the commentator, wrote this week, the speech that he says Phil Goff should have made, you probably saw it in the National Business Review. He said Chris Carter should have been you know forced into resigning, and Matthew Hooton writing, as Phil Goff said, 'as leader I've invited the local Labour Party to find the best candidate for a bi-election. I want someone who grew up in the tough streets, who knows what it's like not having enough money to pay the bills, who started a small business, pays their workers well, has become a leader in the community, who coaches kids sport in the weekend. I want real Labour. Does that describe you guys.

GRANT Look Paul, I'm somebody who grew up in a middle class family, I've got a mortgage, I've had teenage kids grow up in my house. I'm worried about the bills when they come in just like anyone else. I'm concerned for my fellow citizens. I think as Charles says, the people who come into our office are looking for people who'll be empathetic, who will look after their concerns about their cost of living, the increases in ACC charges. They're looking for people who know about the issues that they're facing, they don’t care about our sexuality, and I really frankly don’t think the public should either.

CHARLES I think it's interesting with the identity politics, you know I'm lucky enough to be the first Pacific Islander to sit on a front bench of a major political party, but you know people choose not to focus on that. You’ve got the focus on another issue. Actually what we're told by Phil Goff is we were promoted on merit, and we intend to prove that by our actions.

PAUL What is Phil Goff's vision for the country?

GRANT Oh look Phil's somebody who believes in core Labour principles of a fair go for everybody, and making sure that everybody can achieve their potential. He's been a Labour man from his teenage years, and those principles are core to him, so he's leading us as a party to look after people's basic needs, to worry about the cost of living, to make sure people can achieve their potential. I think he's a good leader in that regard.

PAUL How patient are the caucus going to be with him as leader, do you think, if the polls continue as they are?

CHARLES I think the caucus is very united behind Phil, and I think ironically the events of last week have strengthened that level of unity. Funnily enough when you are under pressure from the outside, you do tend to stick together more, and he has done a fantastic job, leading Labour of that election defeat, reassembling the team, and keeping a message that’s strong, consistent and united.

PAUL Tell me something and I'm sure you'll know what I mean. As a leader is he frightening enough?

GRANT I think you saw this week how decisive he could be, and I think that was a really good sign for a lot of people.

PAUL I'm not asking that, I'm asking is he frightening enough. For example, if Chris Carter had been demoted by Helen, had his portfolios taken from him, would he have remained as imperious under Helen as he did under Goff?

GRANT Oh look I don’t think that’s an issue at all.

PAUL What's not an issue?

GRANT I think the difference that you're trying to draw there, I think that Phil dealt with the matter really decisively. He showed that he is a strong leader, and somebody who has respect for New Zealand for his role as a Minister, people are getting used to him in a different role as a leader, and I think he's showing that he can do that.

CHARLES And I think the key point is as Phil said, he intends to do a major reshuffle in November, he's always intended to do that. You will see a very strong and decisively led Labour team going into the election.

PAUL Very good indeed but nevertheless Labour does not seem in the polling to be reconnecting with the people, that’s what I'm talking about really. Why is Labour not reconnecting?

GRANT Look it takes time for people after having a government for nine years, they were voted out. It takes time to rebuild trust for us, and you know we realise that, that’s why we've been getting out into the community on the bus tour and other things, and we are connecting, and after the Budget people have been saying to me how concerned they are about their cost of living going up, where's the plan to create jobs, home come early childhood education's been cut. So we are connecting on those levels.

CHARLES And I think the trend in the polls is interesting too Paul, I mean we'll take a knock or a bump as a result of last week, but actually every month the numbers are coming up, and I think you're seeing the proof of what Grant has said on the issues, when we talk about things that matter to ordinary people, they do respond, and slowly but surely the support is coming back up to where it needs to go.

PAUL But National are doing some very difficult, potentially controversial, dangerous things politically, for example giving perhaps up to 10% of the foreshore to Maori with customary title, and yet it doesn’t seem to make anyone angry.

CHARLES Well I think what will make people angry is after 1 October when they're paying more as a result of the GST increase. They’ve had their ECE money cut, they're paying more on their student loans, they're paying more on their power bills, they're paying more for petrol. That’s when the rubber really hits the road, and I think we will start to see people resonating much more with Labour's message, that we're keen to help those ordinary people get a hand up.

GRANT The people who come into my office are concerned about the rise in their power prices, the fact that they're gonna be paying more for child care and early childhood education, they are worried about what National's doing, and we are connecting with them on those issues.

PAUL Grant Robertson, all the very best, and Charles Chauvel, thank you very much for coming in.

ENDS

© Scoop Media