Q+A March 17: Susan Wood interviews Dr Scott Tinker
Q+A Dr Scott Tinker Interview Transcript 17/03/13
Sunday 17 March,
2013
Q+A host Susan Wood
interviews visiting US geologist Dr Scott Tinker about the
future of energy in NZ and globally
A
visiting US geologist told Q+A host Susan Wood that NZ could
be a poster child for the rest of the world on its diverse
mix of renewable and non-renewable energy
choices.
Dr Scott Tinker says NZ is in a fortunate
position: “You have all the renewable energies. You
certainly have oil and gas and coal, even hydrates in the
deep oceans. It would be fascinating to watch NZ evolve that
portfolio and let the world see maybe how that mix can
transition, and you might have a lot of eyes on as that
happened.”
He added that the country needed to
decide whether it wanted to use it old and gas deposits to
grow the country.
“Do we want to monetise the oil
and gas resource and invest the returns into the long-term
future - economic and environmental - like Norway is doing -
or not?” he said.
NZ’s electricity prices are
double that of the US which Dr Tinker said was most likely
to be because renewable energy is more expensive overall
than burning coal to make electricity.
NZ’s
electricity is powered by 54.5 per cent hydro stations, 15.9
per cent by gas-fired power stations, 10 per cent by
coal-fired stations, 7.3 per cent geothermal, 6.1 per cent
wind power, 3.9 per cent cogeneration, 1.8 per cent diesel
and less than 0.6 per cent from other
sources.
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Q+A
SUSAN
WOOD INTERVIEWS DR SCOTT
TINKER
SUSAN
WOOD
Dr Scott Tinker is a geologist with the
University of Texas. He’s also made a documentary, Switch,
that looks at the global transition between different types
of energy - from carbon-based fuels like coal and oil to
lower-emission natural gas, wind and biofuels. He was in
NZ last week as the guest of the Petroleum Exploration and
Production Association. So, Dr Tinker, we’re talking about
dirty energy powering these developing nations. A massive
impact on all of us, is there anything we can
do?
DR SCOTT TINKER -
Geologist
Yeah, that’s a powerful piece of the
film, it really is. It sets you back, and you can double
that when you add China to India; over a billion people. The
challenge is - and it’s an important one - climate is such
as important topic now, but when you visit Haiti, or when
you visit South Africa or other underdeveloped nations that
are beginning to develop, it’s hard to look at them and
say, ‘You can’t use affordable, available energy to
provide the fundamentals of life - food, shelter, housing,
education.’ So there’s definitely a near-term and
long-term scale or trade-off that goes on, and I think
it’s solvable. I think we can do this, but it’s going to
take thoughtful people, globally, recognising that we all
have different roles to play. And we have to contribute to
that global betterment, if you will, and each play our
different roles.
SUSAN
In NZ, energy, electricity is really expensive.
Like twice the price of the US. Do you have any idea why we
are paying so much in this
country?
SCOTT
(LAUGHS) Well, you have beautiful, clean energy.
Renewable energy is more expensive overall than burning coal
to make electricity or even, today in the US, burning
natural gas, which is a very affordable fuel for heat to
boil water, make steam and turn the turbines. So there’s a
trade-off between that technology and more affordable
technology.
SUSAN
Oil - for so many years, we’ve been told that the
oil supply is running out, but it does seem now with these
new technologies that in fact this is not the case; that, in
fact, we have a lot of oil
left.
SCOTT
Estimates are that there are about 6 or 7 trillion
barrels of oil still left to be produced, and we’ve
consumed about 1.3 in the world altogether for all of
history. So that’s a big number. Now it’s more
expensive, it’s in harder to reach areas, and it’s got
new technology that has to happen. So as that happens, other
forms of energy will compete with it on a cost basis and
technologically, and you’ll see the substitution thing
that goes on.
SUSAN
While that’s going on, though, we have got a lot
of exploration in fossil energy. Oil - we’re talking about
Taranaki coast, we’re talking about Southland. I mean, how
concerned should we be around the environment? We’ve seen
the results of those terrible
spills.
SCOTT
When they happen, they are environmental disasters.
Macondo in the US and Exxon Valdez and others. But you can
probably name the few big ones that have happened in the
last several decades globally. So with all of the
exploration and production that goes on, the risk of a
bigger incident is very low. The damage is high. The
challenge, I think, NZ faces is one of a tremendous
portfolio of options. And the country has to ask itself,
‘Do we want to monetise the oil and gas resource and
invest the returns into the long-term future - economic and
environmental - like Norway is doing - or
not?’
SUSAN
Fracking - it’s a big subject here and around the
world. Just how dangerous is
it?
SCOTT
Hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, has been in
place for over five decades. The surface process with oil
and gas exploration, whether they’re with hydraulic
fracturing or not, they have risk. They always have, and
they need to be managed, the regulators need to monitor very
closely, and those who don’t obey their permits and
regulatory allowances need to be not allowed to operate. So
the fracking itself is not a dangerous process, but oil and
gas activity has always had
challenges.
SUSAN
So, in other words, it just needs to be
well-regulated and well-monitored, is what you’re
essentially saying around
that.
SCOTT It
absolutely does, and it can
be.
SUSAN Do
you think we are roughly on the right track with our power,
with our energy?
SCOTT
Boy, I think you are, and I think you’re very
fortunate. You know, the diversity of choices here is
wonderful. I think, in fact, you have an opportunity to be a
bit of a prototype for the world. You have all the renewable
energies. You certainly have oil and gas and coal, even
hydrates in the deep oceans. It would be fascinating to
watch NZ evolve that portfolio and let the world see maybe
how that mix can transition, and you might have a lot of
eyes on as that
happened.
ENDS