Q+A: Susan Wood interviews Nikki Kaye
Sunday 7th April, 2013
Q+A: Susan Wood
interviews Nikki Kaye
Food Safety
Minister Nikki Kaye announces new food health label
regulations on TV One’s Q + A this
morning.
Nikki
Kaye told host Susan Wood that the new regulation was
targeted at the health claims food companies made about
their products. She said this would give consumers greater
confidence.
“..what today is about is actually on
certain labels we know that some of those claims are not
correct, and we will be assigning a standard which will
enable 200 new health claims to be made.”
The standard applies in New Zealand and Australia, and covers claims on food labels ranging from ‘low in fat’ to more specific claims such as ‘diets high in calcium may reduce the risk of osteoporosis in people 65 years and over.’
“..we
have a compliance team within ministry of primary
industries. We are world leading in terms of our food
systems. We have over a million tests a year, we have
certification systems, so we have a range of ways to police
this.”
Nikki Kaye says ministers in Australia and
New Zealand rejected a traffic light labelling system
warning people off bad food, because of unintended
consequences.
“So if you use the traffic light
system, take milk versus fizzy drink. You could end up
coming out with a red for milk.”
But she concedes there
is room to simplify the system and is working with the
industry on a voluntary star rating.
“…and if
we go too far in terms of the regulation around labelling,
we add cost to the price of food, and that really hurts
low-income families.”
The standard will take
effect in New Zealand from 9 May 2013, now that it has been
signed off by the Food Safety Minister. Food companies have
three years to fully comply.
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Q+A
SUSAN
WOOD INTERVIEWS NIKKI KAYE
SUSAN
WOOD
We all care about the food we eat, but how
much are we swayed by claims that a certain product will
reduce cholesterol, cause us to lose weight or keep our
bones strong? The government is going to crack down on
reckless promises and make food companies back their claims
with evidence. Nikki Kaye is the Minister for Food Safety. A
very good morning to you.
NIKKI KAYE,
Minister for Food Safety
Good
morning.
SUSAN
So, a new law. You’re addressing a problem. How widespread
is the issue of false health claims on food?
NIKKI
Well, I think that what’s important is that we are putting
in a regulation which will mean that we can have greater
confidence in terms of what is on the labelling of our food.
SUSAN But, I
mean, there must be a problem if you’re addressing it.
NIKKI
Well, that’s right. So, it’s not only an issue in terms
of compliance. We do over a million tests a year, but then
secondly it’s about
..
SUSAN So how
many shonky claims are
there?
NIKKI
Well, again, you don’t know what you don’t know, but
what I can tell you is that we find stuff every year that is
shonky. But then secondly, I think
what’s-
SUSAN
Is it a big percentage of the tests you
do?
NIKKI
Well, again, the point is that we get a percentage of tests
that happen, and obviously there are a group that are
shonky, but what today is about is actually on certain
labels we know that some of those claims are not correct,
and we will be assigning a standard which will enable 200
new health claims to be
made.
SUSAN Why
are you giving them three years to get those labels
corrected? It shouldn’t take that long, should
it?
NIKKI
Well, 50% of our exports are food. We have a whole lot of
small producers. If we turned the switch tomorrow, that
would add cost to a whole lot of food
producers.
SUSAN
It’s taken you 10 years to get to this point - not you
personally, I understand - but it seems to move very slowly.
NIKKI
Well, that’s because food is quite complex. So if you take
issues of labelling, then, I mean, you look at the traffic
light system - you can end up having unintended consequences
if you get it wrong.
SUSAN
Is it going to be- I mean, what sort of
policing will you have? Remember the Ribena case. 2007. A
couple of school kids do a science experiment and find out
there’s not the vitamin C in there. Is that the sort of- I
mean, are we relying on school kids to police this?
NIKKI
Well, no. As I said before, we have a compliance team within
the Ministry of Primary Industries. We are world-leading in
terms of our food systems. We have over a million tests a
year. We have certification systems. So we have a range of
ways to police
this.
SUSAN And
yet organic food - yesterday’s Herald had a story -
organic food- food is being labelled that is not organic,
organic, and people are paying a lot more and getting away
with it.
NIKKI
Well, I think the point is that we have a range of things
within the system to ensure that we police that. If New
Zealanders are concerned, they can ring the Ministry for
Primary Industries, and that happens on a regular
basis.
SUSAN But
you can’t give me a number of the shonky stuff you’re
coming out with of those million tests, and you actually
don’t know how many poor claims or wrong claims or bad
claims are on our food, do
you?
NIKKI
Well, the point is we have millions of products,
Susan-
SUSAN But
you don’t know, do you? Nobody knows.
NIKKI
Well, the reality
is-
SUSAN Do you
know how many shonky claims there are out there? You
don’t.
NIKKI
Well, you don’t know because we have a system which is if
we tested everything, it would add a massive cost to the
price of food. So the way the system works is we have a
verification system; we also have over a million tests, as
I’ve said before, which is a huge amount for a small
nation. And I think the point is that we do know that when
we do those tests a high proportion of them do come back as
correct. So, I mean, I can’t give you the exact
percentage, but what I am telling you is we are
world-leading, because we have not only a verification
system, we have good labelling. And what today is
about-
SUSAN We
could do better, though, couldn’t we? And, look, the
Herald would not be running a food column every week telling
us what’s in our food and what stabiliser 471 means if our
food was better
labelled.
NIKKI
Well, I think that’s the point. Today is about actually
requiring that there is evidence-based claims for health
benefits in terms of food.
SUSAN OK, bad
food. There is a system around traffic light - green means
good; red means bad; orange something in the middle.
You’ve rejected that, but what are you going to do to
label bad food as not good for your health? Because, I mean,
we’re in the midst of an obesity epidemic.
NIKKI
Well, we’re currently looking at a potential rating
system. Australia and New Zealand ministers met last year
and rejected the traffic light system, because there are
unintended consequences. So if you use the traffic light
system, take milk versus fizzy drink. You could end up
coming out with a red for
milk.
SUSAN Which
is
nonsensical.
NIKKI
Exactly. So the star rating system that we’re looking at
will look at a range of other nutrients, and I think if we
work with industry, if we work with public health
organisations, we can come up with a better
system.
SUSAN
New Zealanders, we consume about 9 grams of salt a day.
That’s about a teaspoon and a half. If you reduce that to
a teaspoon, 24% fewer strokes, going on international
evidence. What are you doing to get the salt out of our
diets?
NIKKI And
this is the point. Today’s announcement will enable New
Zealanders to have much better information about the
nutrients
in-
SUSAN
That’s only health claims, though. That’s not getting
the bad stuff
out.
NIKKI
Well, no, it is. That’s the point. If you look at what
Uncle Toby’s have done as a result of this regulation,
they’ve reduced the amount of sugar in their cereals by 67
tonnes, Susan. The point is that by having these labels
industry will be, I think, will shift to have much healthier
food, because consumers will require it.
SUSAN Doesn’t
the whole labelling need an overhaul, though? Doesn’t it
need to be really clear that what is in your food- I mean,
you can say, for example, it’s New Zealand made, and
it’s 70% made here. It’s not 100%. There’s lots of
confusion around the
labelling.
NIKKI
Well, again, there are a number of issues, but what I can
say to you is today is a big milestone in terms of a decade
of work to ensure that New Zealanders know what is in their
food from a healthier perspective, but then secondly this
star rating system will help in terms of
simplification..
SUSAN
When will we get some sort of star rating
system?
NIKKI
Well, again, it’s going to be voluntary, but we will be
working with
industry-
SUSAN
And it doesn’t warn people off bad food, does it? You
don’t want to warn people off food, do you? Would Coca
Cola get a star?
NIKKI
Well, again, it might not, because it will depend what’s
in the food. But what I would say to you is the point is if
you get it wrong, if you don’t design your system
properly, whether it’s a traffic light system or a star
system, you can send out bad messages.
SUSAN Sure, I
get that, but we don’t seem to have a coherent
system.
NIKKI
Well, I think we do, actually. I think if you look at the
amount of testing that goes on, you can actually see that
New Zealand is world-leading from a food-safety perspective.
I do agree that we need to have a simpler system. That’s
why the star rating system will help
us.
SUSAN
Because, really, we’ve got to stop people eating all that
bad food, and the health issues and the consequences that
are going to flow from
that.
NIKKI
Well, I think that’s the point, Susan. This is about
choice and more informed consumers, and I think today is a
huge milestone. It’s taken 10 years to get
here.
SUSAN
Yeah, but this is the worried well. These are people who can
afford to buy the high-end stuff. You’re not talking about
people who are probably struggling and buying the processed,
cheaper food.
NIKKI
That’s a really important point, Susan, and if we go too
far in terms of the regulation around labelling, we add cost
to the price of food, and that really hurts low-income
families. So the balance here is to provide simpler
labelling, more informed choice, but also not add a whole
lot of costs that will hurt low-income
families.
SUSAN
Nikki Kaye, thanks for your time this
morning.
NIKKI
Thank you very
much.
ENDS