Gordon Campbell | Parliament TV | Parliament Today | News Video | Crime | Employers | Housing | Immigration | Legal | Local Govt. | Maori | Welfare | Unions | Youth | Search

 


Q+A Panel: Response to Paul Brislen, Russel Norman, Amy Adams


PANEL DISCUSSIONS
HOSTED BY SUSAN WOOD

In response to PAUL BRISLEN and RUSSEL NORMAN interview and
AMY ADAMS interview

SUSAN WOOD
Welcome back to the panel. Stephen Franks is madly scribbling down there. Mike Williams and Jennifer Curtin. Before we get on to substance, because we’ve been talking about leadership a lot this morning, that was a powerful response there from Amy Adams, wasn’t it, Mike?

MIKE WILLIAMS - Former Labour Party President
Confusing, though. I mean, in the throes of that interview, she kept saying that there’s a lot of misinformation out there. Well, that’s because the intentions and measures within the bill have been poorly communicated. The truth of the matter is that the NSA in America has the same sort of law behind it, and over the years, this has resulted in absolutely massive harvesting of personal emails and personal telephone calls. There is nothing to stop that happening here.

STEPHEN FRANKS - Former ACT MP
I thought she did a very good job, but there’s one thing that’s very hard for a democratic leader to say in this area, certainly in our generation, that if we had an outrage in NZ, the fate of a leader who stood there in front of the people, ‘Look, I could have found it out, but we decided we wouldn’t’ would be far worse than the Pike River directors. It’s a situation. In previous generations, if you ran a railway, you were obliged to consult with defence so it could carry your trucks or your tanks in most countries. If you built a port, you reserved space for guns on a headland. Defence has always been problematic. It’s always been scary. It’s always been a potential for it to be misused. My concern about the political campaign on this is that they’re not focussing on what I want to hear, which is what are the rules that prevent this information going for commercial purposes or transmitted on offences that wouldn’t be offences here but are overseas? How do you protect New Zealanders from uses? I think the door was opened long ago. We have to assume that in all prudent countries, the data will be accessed if there’s a hazard. So the key thing is, then, what are the constraints on use? And we used to have a bipartisan consensus here. Now it’s broken down.

SUSAN And that is a very good point, Jennifer. Helen Clark sat down with Jenny Shipley over it. We saw it, and it was all around national security, and this has become politicised, and, really, does it do any of us service the fact that it has not become so partisan, so polarised?

JENNIFER CURTIN - Political Scientist
Well, I don’t think you hear a lot from Labour about it, so the polarisation is between the Greens and the government. And I think then it’s about, like, the minister’s message is really clear. But up to this point, I’m not sure that the voters have been getting clear messages on the pros and cons of this bill, and partly because the focus has been so strongly on the GCSB, which is why people might be getting this mixed up. So if there is misinformation out there, it’s time to get it cleared up with the correct information, but I think voters will generally find this too technical to engage within a meaningful way.

SUSAN Stephen, you know, we’ve just heard three interviews, and it’s hard to know whether it’s the slow threat to freedom, as Russel Norman would have it, or simply just technical legislation, as Amy Adams would have it.

STEPHEN I think it’s both. Paul was very interesting, because he has looked at it technically, and he is concerned that it’ll mean they have to clear their network designs with officials who might be way behind the eight ball and we’ll lose market opportunity, and it’ll cost us a lot more. On the other hand, there are probably good reasons to think that Huawai could be a problem. IBM. We know that IBM used to put stuff into things it sold to support US defence. All countries will use opportunities, and none of the politicians really want to talk about it, because we’re supposed to be peace-loving and we don’t threaten anyone. But the truth is there are some really hard design problems, and if we didn’t have some sort of protection, for example, the Australians would see us as their flapping back door.

SUSAN And yet there are allegations, Mike, that this law, if it’s passed, will stifle innovation. We heard that from Paul Brislen.

MIKE Yeah, I can’t actually follow that argument, but what I would say is that the point the minister made was this doesn’t actually change things very much. And I’m wondering about that, because we seem to be very good at picking up paedophiles, looking at child pornography, so somehow this is working. Is this bill even really necessary? I can’t imagine what’s changed technically to make a difference. That’s the first point. The second point is I don’t think enough of an effort, as Jennifer observed, has been made to bring the Labour Party onside. I think there was a possibility there of a bipartisan. I don’t you would have ever got the Greens onside. But I don’t think enough of an effort was made to get more than that one-seat majority for that legislation.

SUSAN And it would be good, actually, whoever the new Labour leader is, Stephen, when we’re through this process in the next few weeks, if we do see some effort from John Key’s government towards him to try and get them onside. I mean, we know about the meeting with David Shearer, which may have been part of his undoing.

STEPHEN Yes, we should. Certainly, we’ve been very fortunate not to have the polarisation that we see in the United States, where that consensus is broken down. Instead of having some things where we’re all in this together, they all now fight on every front.

SUSAN Yes, because, Jennifer, you know, I think you would get 100 New Zealanders in the room, and 99 - maybe the Green wouldn’t agree on - but matters of national security, I think we’re pretty united on. None of us want to see attacks on NZ.

JENNIFER No, that’s right, and I think this is where people want to be reassured that arguments that some of the human rights activists are making or civil liberties groups are making about freedom of expression being curtailed by this bill, we really need to have a considered conversation around that to reassure voters that these sorts of-

SUSAN Well, none of us want that either.

STEPHEN Well, they do. We do. I mean, the truth is that if opportunists- I was named in the Nicky Hager book, and Don Brash was destroyed by it. And the same people who are complaining now thought that was wonderful. They’re not really interested in privacy of communication. They’re just really interested in picking a tribal fight.

SUSAN Very good, panel. We’ll leave it there. Thank you.


ENDS

© Scoop Media

 
 
 
 
 
Parliament Headlines | Politics Headlines | Regional Headlines

Patience: Drive Safe

Be patient before passing is the AA's message for drivers this Labour weekend.

"People taking crazy risks to get past other vehicles is one of the most dangerous things on the road,” says AA spokesperson Dylan Thomsen.

“The weather is looking good for the long weekend so the roads will be busy. Unfortunately, that also increases the chances of people getting frustrated and trying a risky passing manoeuvre. When they get past, there will probably be more traffic up ahead anyway so it won’t get people there faster.” More>>

 
 

Parliament Today:

Employment Relations Bill: Govt Strains To Get Tea Break Law Through

The Government has been left with egg on its face - failing to get its much-vaunted, but hugely unpopular, meal break law passed in the first week of its new term, Labour spokesperson on Labour Issues Andrew Little says. More>>

ALSO:

Guns: Police Association Call To Arm Police Full Time

"The new minister gave his view, that Police do not need to be armed, while standing on the forecourt of parliament. The dark irony was that the interview followed immediately after breaking news of a gunman running amok in the Canadian parliament in Ottawa..." More>>

ALSO:

Gordon Campbell: On The Tokenism Of New Zealand's Role Against Islamic State

Our contribution against IS will be to send SAS forces to train the Iraqis? That’s like offering trainers to General Custer just as the 7th cavalry reached the Little Big Horn. More>>

ALSO:

Scoop Business: Shell And Todd Caught Drilling Without Approval

Multi-national oil company Shell’s New Zealand arm and local energy giant Todd Energy have breached the new law governing New Zealand’s Exclusive Economic Zone, the Environmental Protection Authority says in an Oct. 10 document released by the Green Party. More>>

ALSO:

Gordon Campbell: On Pharmac, Gough Whitlam And Sleater-Kinney

We’re not at the outset of these negotiations. The outset was six years ago, and negotiators were hoping to have some sort of ‘framework’ deal finished in time for the APEC meeting in a few weeks’ time. These ‘extreme’ positions are what we’ve reached near the intended end of the negotiations… More>>

ALSO:

PM Of Many Hats: Questions, No Answers On Whale Oil

Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader – Green) to the Prime Minister: How many times since November 2008 has he spoken with blogger Cameron Slater on the phone and how many times, if any, has he texted him?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): None in my capacity as Prime Minister. More>>

ALSO:

Aussie Investigation Dropped: Call On Minister McCully To Pursue The Case Of Balibo Five

West Papua Action is deeply concerned at the lack of any clear outcome from the Australian Federal Police inquiry into the 1975 deaths of the ‘Balibo Five’ including NZ journalist Gary Cunningham. More>>

ALSO:

'Feed The Kids' Bill: Metiria Turei To Lead Fight On Feeding Hungry Children

Green Party Co-leader Metiria Turei is urging all political parties to support the Feed the Kids Bill which she inherited today from Mana leader Hone Harawira. More>>

ALSO:

Parliament Today: State Opening Of Parliament

The House sat at 10.30am on Tuesday before MPs were summoned to hear the Speech from the Throne in the Legislative Council Chamber. More>>

ALSO:

Get More From Scoop

 

LATEST HEADLINES

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Politics
Search Scoop  
 
 
Powered by Vodafone
NZ independent news