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Q+A: ACT leader David Seymour on TV One's Q+A programme

ACT leader David Seymour on TV One’s Q+A programme.

Q+A, 9-10am Sundays on TV ONE and one hour later on TV ONE plus 1. Repeated Sunday evening at 11:35pm. Streamed live at www.tvnz.co.nz

Thanks to the support from NZ On Air.

Q + A
Episode 6
DAVID SEYMOUR
Interviewed by HEATHER DU PLESSIS-ALLAN

HEATHER David, how many votes did your candidate get in that Northland by-election?

DAVID Well, clearly not enough. But can I tell you, there was another loser, and a much more profound loser in this by-election, and that was actually Andrew Little. If you--

HEATHER David, we are talking about your candidate--

DAVID If you let me explain how this is relevant…

HEATHER Your candidate got 66 votes. You were beaten by the Cannabis Party. Are you worried about that?

DAVID Well, we’re not going to adopt their policy any time soon. But nonetheless, here’s how it is relevant, is that central-right voters looking across the spectrum now see that Andrew Little has ceded being the prime leader of the Opposition. He cannot be a credible prime minister, and so you look back across at the right and say, ‘What is a stable centre-right coalition?’ Is ACT relevant? More than ever.

HEATHER How are you more relevant? You got 66 votes.

DAVID Well, to be fair, we actually strategically instructed voters not to vote for our candidate, and the fact that we succeeded--

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HEATHER David, you try to— Can I interrupt you?

DAVID …in all 66 cases is a massive success, actually.

HEATHER You try to—The prime minister scoffed at you and basically said, ‘Don’t worry about it, David. Thanks very much.’

DAVID Well, the prime minister can respond however he likes, but the fact is that you are trying to read far too much into the number of votes gotten by a candidate who is strategically asking people not to vote for him. If this is what you want to dwell on all interview, we can do that. But I don’t think it’s the most important--

HEATHER Well, you may say that. You may say that. 66 votes this time, 160-odd in the 2014 general election. That’s down from something like 2100 13 years ago. That is a big decline. Are you guys just bleeding votes to death?

DAVID No, we’re not. What we’re doing is coming into a stage where we are rebuilding. We’ve been in Parliament for six months now since the last election, and my job is to say to people who no longer believe National’s message that we’ve had an earthquake and a GFC, and this is as good as it will ever get, that there is another option, that when April 1st runs around, you have a government from National which is saying, ‘We are giving out money to this group, this group, this group, and nothing for taxpayers.’ It’s starting to look awfully like Michael Cullen in his third term. And Act’s message is that if you want lower taxes, if you want a larger role for business in community and a smaller role for government and this state, then we’re here, and we’re your party.

HEATHER One of the things that has happened as a result of that by-election is that you and the government have lost the ability to pass legislation as a majority, which means that you’re going to find it a lot harder to get ACT’s policies into law. Isn’t that true?

DAVID Well, it’s a perfect example of why you would vote for ACT at the next election and make us stronger. RMA reform will now effectively be decided by the Maori Party, and we have some hope, because it is Maori who are disproportionately living in caravans, living in garages because of the housing shortage that’s been brought about by bad land use regulation. The ACT Party says that we need to comprehensively reform the RMA, and that’s another reason why if you’re concerned about housing affordability, if you’re concerned about the poverty that it creates, then you might consider giving your vote to ACT. Because we’re the only party saying that it’s not enough just to tinker. The RMA needs to be substantially reformed, and that means Sections Five, Six and Seven.

HEATHER You’ve been talking about that for years – you guys have wanted to reform the RMA. Frustrated that you can’t now?

DAVID Oh, I think the people are frustrated. Remember, we had nine years of Labour, where every time the reports came out that housing affordability is slipping, all Helen Clark could say was that if we compared ourselves to Europe, we might look better. That’s what she used to say. We’ve since had seven years of National, and they, too, have failed to move on this. So are we a country that just sits by, allows these problems to mount, or do we do something about it? And there may only be one of me, but I am the only one in Parliament saying that we need substantial RMA reform, not just tinkering at the edges.

HEATHER You may have a white knight, because Winston Peters says he may consider helping you pass RMA legislation. Will you work with him?

DAVID Look, it’s an important issue, and I can work with anyone, but let’s be honest. The guy’s been in Parliament for 40 years, and it’s very very difficult to think of times that he’s made a significant positive improvement to public policy in New Zealand.

HEATHER Are you afraid of the prospect of having to work with Winston Peters?

DAVID No, no. I just don’t think it’ll be very successful.

HEATHER Okay, so I want to know if you’ve made up your mind about how you’re going to vote on the bill to repeal the Sky City deal.

DAVID Oh, I’m voting against the bill. I think it is a shonky deal to establish the Sky City legislation in the first place. Frankly, it’s embarrassing to live in a country where the Parliament passes statutes so that a building can be built, but there’s only one thing worse than that, and it’s this –making that kind of move, having that kind of statute and then two years later pulling the rug out from under the people who have planned around building the building they alluded to, so would I have supported the initial deal? No, I wouldn’t. Do I support a Parliament that pulls the rug out from people two years after legislation’s been passed so they can build a building? No, I don’t.

HEATHER See, that’s the interesting thing for me is that you do have a bit of a problem with the deal as it stood—

DAVID A bit of a problem? I think it’s shonky. I think it’s a disgrace.

HEATHER Well, there you go. And you said as much. You had the opportunity when this bill was drawn from the ballot last week. You had the opportunity to vote for this bill to repeal that deal. You indicated you might do that. You get a call from Steven Joyce when he finds out; you change your mind the next morning. Is that the kind of party you are? You just do what the Nats say you have to do?

DAVID Well, is that the kind of commentator you are? Some political commentators like to focus on horse trading between politicians and powerplays. I actually like to think about the principle, and there’s two here. One principle is that—

HEATHER I did not bring up horse trading, David. You did.

DAVID Okay, well, fair enough. Fair enough.

HEATHER I want to know what happened. What happened?

DAVID What happened is that I weighed up two principles, and the first, as I’ve said, is that government should not be passing legislation so that people can build a specific building. I think that’s wrong on a lot of levels. However, I also believe that regulatory stability is very important, and sending the signal that you have a deal with the New Zealand Government, then Parliament will pull the rug out from under you two years later also impacts on the quality of the regulatory environment in New Zealand. I weighed up those two principles—

HEATHER You are the leader. You are the leader of the ACT Party. Steven Joyce is fourth or fifth down the list in National. It takes one phone call from the guy fourth or fifth down the list to change your mind?

DAVID See, this is horsetrading again. You’re buying into the premise.

HEATHER What did he offer you?

DAVID See? There you go.

HEATHER You brought up horse trading.

DAVID There you go again. There you go again. He did not. I’m rejecting the horse-trading hypothesis. No, he did not, and that’s not how it works.

HEATHER Well, don’t you think that’s a perfect opportunity to get back voters?

DAVID What I did—? If I was a horse-trader, but I’m not. What I’ve said is that I like to compare principles, and I’ve explained what the two principles are, and on balance in this case I think regulatory stability is more important than reversing one shonky deal.

HEATHER All right, you want to have a referendum on superannuation.

DAVID Absolutely.

HEATHER How are you going with that?

DAVID Very well. And, look, this is a question—

HEATHER Have the Nats agreed to it?

DAVID That’ll be the hardest one to get, I suspect. But I’ve spoken with several other parties. In fact, by the end of this month, I will have spoken with every other party leader, and many of them are quite warm to it. I can’t tell exactly what they’re saying right now, but here’s the real issue here, and this is why ACT is relevant. I said at the start people are getting a little bit tired of the National Party saying after six years, ‘This is as good as it’s going to get. Are we a country that sees massive problems coming down the road – the Treasury telling us we’ll be 200% of GDP in debt by the time current university students retire and just saying, ‘Blah, blah, nothing to see here,’ and kick the can down the road once more, or are we a country that looks into the future and confronts our challenges? If we can do it having a referendum and an expert committee for the flag, then the ACT Party says that you can do it for something as important as superannuation, intergenerational fairness and the sustainability of our nation’s finances.

HEATHER Speaking of future, how much of a future do you think the ACT Party’s got left in it?

DAVID Well, for all the reasons I’m telling you, I think it’s very large. There has always been an ACT movement in New Zealand, whether it’s the democrats in 1935, whether it’s Bob Jones’ New Zealand Parliament, the fact is that New Zealand is a free-trading, property-owning, business-building democracy, where people don’t just vote very three years. They get out and help each other. And the ACT Party message that there should be a larger role for business in community and a smaller role for the state is a timeless one, and one that in intend to expand significantly.

HEATHER David Seymour, ACT Party leader. Thank you very much for joining us.


ENDS

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