Q+A: Paul Foster-Bell - Tamaki’s Comments Prompted Me
Paul Foster-Bell: Brian Tamaki’s Comments Prompted Me to Come Out
First-term National list MP
Paul Foster-Bell says recent comments by Brian Tamaki about
homosexuality causing the Kaikoura earthquakes were amongst
several factors prompting him to ‘come out’ as a gay
man. “I think in terms of the damage to young people,
perhaps young people in provincial New Zealand who are
questioning their sexuality, questioning their own
self-worth, it’s actually throwing petrol on a fire when
you send out a message that gay people are very similar to
murderers, they’re sinners, and they’re creating natural
disasters,” he told One News political reporter Andrea
Vance. “You and I can dismiss that as intelligent adults
as just being ludicrous, but for those kids, that’s
actually a really hurtful thing at an already difficult time
in their life. And we’re talking about young teenagers who
have actually a four times higher risk of depression and of
suicide. So I think we had a moral obligation to speak up as
a society.”
Mr Foster-Bell says there have been times
in his career he has had to be discreet about his sexuality,
including when he worked abroad as a diplomat.
“My
overseas postings were in the Middle East in places like
Iran and Saudi Arabia, where if you were an openly gay
diplomat there, you’d risk perhaps being made persona non
grata; that is, put on the next plane out of the country,
booted out and lose your job. “But worst still, the
person who you were with is a criminal. That person could be
executed, have parts amputated. It’s horrific the
treatment of gay people in some countries of the world. So
that was a challenge, and that’s why for that part of my
career I was discreet. That was a necessary level of
discretion. “
END
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transcript of the interview and here’s the Link:
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A
Episode
39
PAUL
FOSTER-BELL
Interviewed by ANDREA
VANCE
GREG A week ago National
MP Paul Foster-Bell approached 1 NEWS reporter Andrea Vance
with a story he wanted to tell. The first-term MP was born
and raised on a farm near Whangarei. He had a career as a
diplomat, at one point based in Saudi Arabia and working
across a number of Gulf States. He lives in Wellington
Central. He's also gay, which is something he's never talked
about publicly before. But last weekend he decided he had
to, so Andrea sat down with him a few days ago and asked him
why.
PAUL Well,
look, there’s been a number of things over recent months,
from events in the Middle East with gay people being thrown
off buildings, through to even closer to home, gay people
being criminalised, being imprisoned and whipped in some of
the Pacific nations. But, actually, it was Brian Tamaki’s
outburst a few weeks ago that really did make me furious,
and it meant that it was time for me, really, to speak
up.
ANDREA It was
his comments about the earthquake, that’s what you’re
talking
about.
PAUL Absolutely.
ANDREA Why
was that a catalyst for you to be more open, and what damage
do you think that it
did?
PAUL Well,
look, I think in terms of the damage to young people,
perhaps young people in provincial New Zealand who are
questioning their sexuality, questioning their own
self-worth, it’s actually throwing petrol on a fire when
you send out a message that gay people are very similar to
murderers, they’re sinners, and they’re creating natural
disasters. You and I can dismiss that as intelligent adults
as just being ludicrous, but for those kids, that’s
actually a really hurtful thing at an already difficult time
in their life. And we’re talking about young teenagers who
have actually a four times higher risk of depression and of
suicide. So I think we had a moral obligation to speak up as
a
society.
ANDREA Is
that something that you identify with? Have you struggled
previously with being open about your
sexuality?
PAUL To
some extent, I suppose. Growing up in provincial New Zealand
back in the ‘70s and ‘80s, it is a conservative society.
And I was really lucky to have, actually, very supportive,
hard-working and loving parents. But I know, actually, most
gay men, as they’re growing up, I certainly felt maybe a
sense of disappointment from Dad. He always wanted that
First XV rugby player, and I was happier with my nose in a
book or perhaps helping Mum in the kitchen with some
cooking. So I knew I wasn’t that person, and that sense of
disappointment that kids are very sensitive to, it can be a
little bit
damaging.
ANDREA So
your family are sitting at home watching this now. How do
you think that they will feel about you talking about this
so publicly and so
openly?
PAUL Well,
look, I hope— Actually, I know that they’ll be really
proud of what I’m doing, because the platform that I’ve
been given here in Parliament allows me to do some good in
society. I don’t think people should come here to be
somebody, to be an MP; they need to come here to do
something.
ANDREA You’ve
been in politics for more than three years now, so did you
feel like this was the time? The time was right now? Did you
feel like you couldn’t be open before now? Did you have
any pressure put on you by your
colleagues?
PAUL Look,
not at all, actually. I have been in Parliament for a few
years now, and I thought this is really time not so much to
come out, it’s time to speak out. So I’m active in the
community in Wellington. I’m a vice patron of Rainbow
Wellington, for instance. I work on a cross-party Rainbow
committee across party lines, and, actually, it was my
colleagues who put me there, so this won’t come as a
surprise to my colleagues. But it was the events of this
year — you know, a homophobic administration in the US
being elected, the rise of the right in Europe, but more
recently that outrageous tirade from Mr Tamaki that really
made it clear to me that I had a moral obligation to speak
out and to use the platform I have, particularly as a
government MP from within inside the Caucus team. The
Opposition have a number of gay MPs, but, actually, it’s
important that within the team that’s running the country
we also have that community represented, and I want to take
a leadership role
there.
ANDREA You
obviously have thought about this and you feel quite
strongly about it, but can I be a little bit cynical here
and suggest that there is something in the timing here. You
are facing a particularly tough selection battle. Has this
got anything to do with this
openness?
PAUL It
goes back over a year, actually, and it’s been something
I’ve been working on more behind the scenes, and when you
think you’re entitled to a private life and it’s no one
else’s business, that’s fine, but when you see these
problems out there and they’re exacerbated by people like
Mr Tamaki, we have to stand up. We have an absolute
compelling moral obligation, particularly as a gay MP, to do
what we can to help those kids, those vulnerable kids, who
are at
risk.
ANDREA So is
this a bit of an open secret? Do you think your Caucus
colleagues will be surprised? And did you actually ask for
permission from the party to do this
interview?
PAUL Look,
we’re free individuals in National, and I don’t think
permission is required, but I certainly spoke to other
people about it before I did it and was really affirmed in
doing that. I don’t think it will be a surprise. It’s
not a secret at all. As I say, I’ve been active both on
the political side around Parliament. This is about getting
outside of that very cosy Wellington bubble, if you like,
where we are liberal, we’re accepting here, and throughout
the country in provincial New Zealand, there is a little
less acceptance, I think, for gay people. So I want to get
that message out there and use the platform I have in
Parliament, just the same way Mr Tamaki’s using his
tax-exempt platform as a self-appointed bishop to send the
opposite
message.
ANDREA Can
you tell me a little bit about the work that you’ve done?
You’ve been putting some pressure on ERO to do some work
in that area to help young people who are struggling with
their
sexuality.
PAUL That’s
absolutely right. That’s a good example. So the
Educational Review Office, it goes into schools, and they
check up on how safe a building is or is the educational
attainment up to what we’d expect. But we’re putting
pressure on them to add to their list of priorities on the
things they check up on how homophobic bullying’s being
dealt with, the harassment of gay students, because we know
that in our schools that kind of behaviour’s leading to
teenage depression and suicide. And we’re actually denying
our country so much potential. You think about Alan Turing,
who created our modern world of computers, took his own life
due to homophobia in society. I think if you look at our
schools in New Zealand, it’s a similar thing. We’re
losing so much potential. Young people who could contribute
a lot to our country, who are failing at school, not doing
well at uni and, even worse, perhaps not functioning well as
members of our society because of that.
ANDREA You
mentioned the difficulties growing up, but has it been
difficult being gay in the foreign service, your previous
career, and then moving into
politics?
PAUL In
some ways it has, actually. It has been challenging. So in
foreign affairs, when you’re basically a public servant
back in Wellington, it’s a very open and modern
progressive environment you’re in. But my overseas
postings were in the Middle East in places like Iran and
Saudi Arabia, where if you were an openly gay diplomat
there, you’d risk perhaps being made persona non grata;
that is, put on the next plane out of the country, booted
out and lose your job. But worst still, the person who you
were with is a criminal. That person could be executed, have
parts amputated. It’s horrific the treatment of gay people
in some countries of the world. So that was a challenge, and
that’s why for that part of my career I was discreet. That
was a necessary level of discretion. But it is worrying when
you think if there was a possibility you might fall in love
with somebody and that could lead to that person being
killed or imprisoned, it’s a huge worry. And in some ways
it made me more passionate in other areas of my job, like
actually delivering strong messages on human rights to those
regimes.
ANDREA So
did you find yourself in a position where you perhaps met
someone that you did care for and you felt like you
couldn’t take that relationship further because of what
might happen to them? Did you hold
back?
PAUL Yes.
ANDREA That
happened? Can you talk about that a little
bit?
PAUL Look, I
don’t want to go into the details of that, Andrea,
partially because people are still unsafe. People who are
back in those countries are still
unsafe.
ANDREA That
must have been heart-breaking,
though.
PAUL It
really
is.
ANDREA So in
politics, has a similar thing happened? Have you been really
careful about your partners or the people that you’ve,
perhaps, dated because you’re worried about a backlash
because you’re in the public
eye?
PAUL Not
really. I mean, I’ve been dating for about nine months a
lovely, amazing guy who is completely unpolitical and is
really, really private and doesn’t want to be publicised
in any way. So I’ve been able to have a much closer to a
normal relationship in this role. And that’s the beauty of
New Zealand. But if we’re not careful, if we don’t
preserve what’s great about our country — that people
are treated according to their merits, not according to
their sexuality — then we risk sliding back to where the
United States is going at the moment.
ANDREA Well,
obviously, not wanting to out anyone or embarrass anyone or
force anyone out of the closet, but is there a danger that
the public perception is that there are no gay MPs in
National? Isn’t that an image problem that you
have?
PAUL Look, I
don’t think so, partially because I’m doing this now and
saying, yes, there is; I’m here. But we’ve had a lot of
friends in our lives. We have MPs who now are openly gay who
were National MPs historically. And I think of, for
instance, Professor Marilyn Waring back in the early 1980s,
who was quite well known for her stoush with Prime Minister
Rob Muldoon back in those days. So National hasn’t been a
complete desert for gay people, but I think it’s important
that we have a strong voice here, and that’s what I’m
hoping to
be.
ANDREA Do you
think that people in the gay community don’t want to stand
for National? They feel like they’ll be the only gay in
the village, if you like? There’s not a space for them or
room for
them?
PAUL Look, I
think the change we’ve seen particularly in the recent
decade or so has been that barrier’s broken down, and
certainly there are gay people coming forward as candidates.
I know I’ve had a gay electorate chair, our Young Nats
chair, presidents of the Young Nats, at least three that I
can think of have been openly gay. So, look, I think that
may have been the case once, but it isn’t now, and it
certainly won’t be in the
future.