Q+A: Steven Joyce
Q+A: National Party Campaign Manager Steven Joyce interviewed by Corin Dann
National Party campaign manager Steven Joyce: the game has changed
National Party campaign manager Steven Joyce told TVNZ’s Q+A programme that the resignation of John Key has changed the game for the next election.
“Well, it’s a different game; there’s no doubt about it. It’s changed the game for the next election. However, I’m one of the people that wouldn’t presume that we were going to win anyway, with John as leader, and wouldn’t presume that we’re going to win now, because actually, it’ll get decided a lot later than now. It’ll be decided whenever the election’s held next year, and actually, you know, there’s lots of opportunities out of this – freshening the story, freshening the team – great new leadership team, less of the—you know, the risk for us before was same old, same old. Now I don’t think it’s going to be that at all, and so we’ve just got to once again put ourselves forward as the best option for New Zealanders.”
Steven Joyce
says there will be changes under a Bill English
leadership”
“ I mean, when
you’ve had policy positions which have been evolving over
eight years, we always said to ourselves, ‘Actually,
you’re heading into an election for a fourth term.’ You
have to go through a process of head-checking yourselves on
all your policy positions, and many will stay the same, and
a few will change, because circumstances change. So this
just brings that into sharper relief, that’s all. We were
actually going to do it anyway. You probably weren’t going
to spend too much time talking about it, but now here we
are, a new leader and a new deputy leader and a new team,
and so, yes, I’m sure you’ll spend more time talking
about it.”
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Q + A
Episode
40
STEVEN
JOYCE
Interviewed by CORIN
DANN
CORIN Steven Joyce, thank
you for joining us. I wonder if we could start – as
National’s campaign manager, how much has the ground
shifted now in your mind, given you’ve got to try and win
and election without, arguably, the biggest asset National
has ever had in John
Key?
STEVEN Well,
it’s a different game; there’s no doubt about it. It’s
changed the game for the next election. However, I’m one
of the people that wouldn’t presume that we were going to
win anyway, with John as leader, and wouldn’t presume that
we’re going to win now, because actually, it’ll get
decided a lot later than now. It’ll be decided whenever
the election’s held next year, and actually, you know,
there’s lots of opportunities out of this – freshening
the story, freshening the team – great new leadership
team, less of the—you know, the risk for us before was
same old, same old. Now I don’t think it’s going to be
that at all, and so we’ve just got to once again put
ourselves forward as the best option for New Zealanders.
CORIN Same
old, same old, but realistically, we’ve heard a lot of
talk this week about the ‘kitchen cabinet’, so that’s
a group of senior MPs that, effectively, are calling most of
the shots. What’s actually changed about that kitchen
cabinet? I mean, it’s pretty much the same; everyone has
just sort of maybe moved up
one.
STEVEN Well,
firstly, I would say you shouldn’t presume that that’s
the actual state of events. Yes, there is a senior group of
ministers who provide advice to the prime minister of the
day, but actually, there’s lots of ministers that
haven’t been in that group who’ve had some very very
significant policy reforms, and actually, to suggest that
everything runs through that group would be wrong; it runs
through the cabinet system. Genuinely, that’s my
experience of it; I’ve been part of it. There’s plenty
of people, for example, in recent times like Amy and Anne
Tolley that haven’t been part of that group, but they’ve
made very very significant reforms, and then in terms of
change, there will be change. I mean, up to Bill, obviously,
in terms of what that change will
be.
CORIN Front-bench
change?
STEVEN Well,
again, he’s got to make that call. I wouldn’t even
presume to do that. First, he’s got to get confirmed by
the caucus tomorrow and Paula confirmed as deputy, and then
after that, he will, obviously, sit down and one of the
things he’ll look at is the make-up of his
cabinet.
CORIN Okay,
so personalities will change, but what about the overall
direction of the government? I mean, Bill English – you
could argue, perhaps, slightly more ideological than John
Key – John Key, the pragmatist? You know, are we going to
see a more driven government that wants to push through
perhaps less government intervention, for
example?
STEVEN I
think, you know, one of the hallmarks and virtues of this
government has been that it has been sensible, predictable,
pragmatic. Yes, of course, we all have a National-party view
of life, which is, you know, encouraging the individual and
their families to succeed. All those things are really
important, but I think we’ve shown a flexibility and an
ability to respond to circumstances, and I don’t think
Bill is, you know, not in step with that at all. He’s
completely in step with
that.
CORIN Yeah,
sure, the public views Bill as the stable, sensible
option…
STEVEN
That’s
right.
CORIN …and
yourself too, but they always had and saw John Key as the
great salesman, if you like, the communicator. You don’t
have that any more. Where do you find
that?
STEVEN Well,
actually, firstly, I think it’ll be different. There’s
no point saying it won’t be different, and it won’t be
the s—you know, it’ll be different people in different
roles, and different people would emerge. Paula, for
example, has huge communication skills. Bill does too,
actually, but he’s been quite happy to sit, you know, in
the background, one off the shoulder of John. John’s done
a fantastic job for us, but this is—everybody’s going to
be trying new roles and new opportunities. That’s the way
it’s going to
work.
CORIN But
there’s a tension there if Paula is—You know, let’s
face it, it’s politics. If she’s got too much of the
limelight and overshadowing her leader, that’s not going
to work either, is
it?
STEVEN Well,
look, I think you’ll see Bill run it as a team. He’s
always been of the view—So, for example, I’ve been his
associate on the economic side. He’s been always more than
happy for me to have my say, to communicate some of the
things that are important to the government around
innovation and skills and so on, and I think he’ll take
that approach as leader, but he’ll fashion his own way
through it. I think, you know, he’s very authentic; he’s
very straight-forward, and he’s not going to sort of dive
off in different directions, but there will be a freshness
of some new policy positions. I mean, it is quite an
opportunity for a stocktake for us. We were going to do that
anyway; we were heading into a
period—
CORIN Well,
you better give us some hints on what they
are.
STEVEN No,
well, not today,
no.
CORIN Well,
let’s start with superannuation, surely, because that
promise was fundamental, wasn’t it – John Key’s
promise that he would resign if he raised the age of super.
Now, Bill this week has said he’s not going to make that
promise. Are you, as potential Finance Minister, in the same
camp?
STEVEN Well,
here’s the deal – we’re not going to talk policy
today. There’s a caucus tomorrow, which first of all has
to confirm its views that it’s expressed publicly over the
last few weeks, and then, actually, I think what’ll happen
– and Bill and I have already talked about this in terms
of the finance context – is that we’ve got the
opportunity of late December, early January to just go ahead
and do a bit of a stocktake of where we’re at, an
opportunity to freshen
policy—
CORIN That’s
interesting, though, isn’t it, a stocktake, because are
you sort of saying that, you know, you can really rewrite
the script a bit here? Things that maybe you didn’t want
– you were under pressure on housing, for example, or
government home-building – things like that could be back
on the table now that we’ve had
this—?
STEVEN I
wouldn’t overplay it as a dramatic change. All I’m
saying is that after eight years, we were very conscious of
the need to do this anyway, and then the former prime
minister – as he’s about to be, about to be former Prime
Minister John Key – made the call last week, and that just
brings that into sharper relief, because we will get the
opportunity to go through some
things.
CORIN Because
let’s face it, you’re under massive pressure on housing.
That’s the big one, isn’t it? Is there an
opportunity—?
STEVEN Well,
actually, I think the housing thing’s been making very
good
progress.
CORIN Sure,
you’ve been throwing everything at it. We know that, but
are you saying there’s an opportunity to do something
fresh in housing, to have another
go?
STEVEN No,
I’m not saying about any portfolio, Corin, because that
would be presumptive of me, and, you know, firstly, because
caucus hasn’t even met yet to confirm the appointments of
Bill and Paula, even though they’re the only nominees for
the respective positions, and then secondly, we all will
want to—you know, then there’ll be a cabinet that going
to be put together, and all the ministers will have their
views about how things might change, and we’ll form a
collective view with
caucus.
CORIN But
it’s the sentiment that quite remarkable, isn’t it,
because after eight years in government, you’re actually
saying that you think you’ve got the opportunity here to
go to the electorate and say, ‘Well, we’ve made
mistakes’ or ‘We’ve done wrong’ or
whatever.
STEVEN No,
no, no, it’s just more of a freshening. I mean, when
you’ve had policy positions which have been evolving over
eight years, we always said to ourselves, ‘Actually,
you’re heading into an election for a fourth term.’ You
have to go through a process of head-checking yourselves on
all your policy positions, and many will stay the same, and
a few will change, because circumstances change. So this
just brings that into sharper relief, that’s all. We were
actually going to do it anyway. You probably weren’t going
to spend too much time talking about it, but now here we
are, a new leader and a new deputy leader and a new team,
and so, yes, I’m sure you’ll spend more time talking
about it.
CORIN As
the presumptive Finance Minister, is there something that
you want to bring to the job, perhaps that Bill wasn’t
doing? I mean, you were very focused in the export space and
economic development; he was very focused in social policy.
Is there a—? Can you just give us a sense of perhaps not
policy but flavour or tone that you will bring to the job
that is
different?
STEVEN Well,
I don’t think it’ll be massively different. I mean, I
have been an MP for eight years, and for the eight years
that I’ve been an MP, I’ve been Bill’s Associate
Finance Minister. He’s had two, but I’ve been the one
that’s sort of been there through the whole eight years.
So we do understand each other very well and the positions
that we’ve adopted in the Finance portfolio I’ve
contributed to over that eight-year period, as has Paula
more recently, and so I don’t think you’ll see dramatic
change in that respect. I certainly don’t think the
country’s looking for dramatic change. I mean, one of the
stories of New Zealand at the moment is how well it’s
doing under the current economic policies relative to most
of the rest of the world in what is, you know, a pretty
fragile time still, but you’ll see, again, some changes of
emphasis at the margins, but I want to have the opportunity
to think about that as well. This time a week ago, I was
going to be the Minister of Economic Development heading
into next year; now I’m having the opportunity maybe to be
the Minister of
Finance.
CORIN Just
on tax cuts – do you have the same stance as Bill English
on this one? I mean, on Thursday it was still in the mix but
perhaps not quite the same priority. Is that a reasonable
assessment?
STEVEN I
think it’s something you’ve always got to be thinking
about, because I think it’s important that you don’t
forget the fact – no politician should forget – is that
the money that they get to spend comes from hard-working
Kiwis. That’s the reality of it. I mean, people often
forget about that, but actually, that is the reality of it.
This is money that otherwise they’d spend themselves on
their families and so on. So you have to keep thinking about
that, but as we’ve always said, we’ve got about four
things that we’re really focused on. Yes, paying down
debt’s got to be one of those things, investing in public
services – we’ve got a growing country; we’ve got to
make sure we do that – and investing in infrastructure. I
mean, Kaikoura has reminded us the resilience of
infrastructure is really important. I was there on Friday,
and, you know, that’s very top of mind and will be top of
mind for Kiwis all over the
country.
CORIN But you’re
saying—
STEVEN But
you’ve got to keep tax on the
table.
CORIN …under
a Steven-Joyce Finance Minister, tax cuts are still very
much there.
STEVEN All I’m
saying is that it’s one of the things in the mix, as it
was before the changes of last
week.
CORIN Steven
Joyce, we have to leave it there. Thank you very
much.
STEVEN Cheers.
Transcript
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