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Q+A: Steven Joyce

Q+A: National Party Campaign Manager Steven Joyce interviewed by Corin Dann

National Party campaign manager Steven Joyce: the game has changed

National Party campaign manager Steven Joyce told TVNZ’s Q+A programme that the resignation of John Key has changed the game for the next election.

“Well, it’s a different game; there’s no doubt about it. It’s changed the game for the next election. However, I’m one of the people that wouldn’t presume that we were going to win anyway, with John as leader, and wouldn’t presume that we’re going to win now, because actually, it’ll get decided a lot later than now. It’ll be decided whenever the election’s held next year, and actually, you know, there’s lots of opportunities out of this – freshening the story, freshening the team – great new leadership team, less of the—you know, the risk for us before was same old, same old. Now I don’t think it’s going to be that at all, and so we’ve just got to once again put ourselves forward as the best option for New Zealanders.”

Steven Joyce says there will be changes under a Bill English leadership”

“ I mean, when you’ve had policy positions which have been evolving over eight years, we always said to ourselves, ‘Actually, you’re heading into an election for a fourth term.’ You have to go through a process of head-checking yourselves on all your policy positions, and many will stay the same, and a few will change, because circumstances change. So this just brings that into sharper relief, that’s all. We were actually going to do it anyway. You probably weren’t going to spend too much time talking about it, but now here we are, a new leader and a new deputy leader and a new team, and so, yes, I’m sure you’ll spend more time talking about it.”

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Q + A
Episode 40
STEVEN JOYCE
Interviewed by CORIN DANN

CORIN Steven Joyce, thank you for joining us. I wonder if we could start – as National’s campaign manager, how much has the ground shifted now in your mind, given you’ve got to try and win and election without, arguably, the biggest asset National has ever had in John Key?

STEVEN Well, it’s a different game; there’s no doubt about it. It’s changed the game for the next election. However, I’m one of the people that wouldn’t presume that we were going to win anyway, with John as leader, and wouldn’t presume that we’re going to win now, because actually, it’ll get decided a lot later than now. It’ll be decided whenever the election’s held next year, and actually, you know, there’s lots of opportunities out of this – freshening the story, freshening the team – great new leadership team, less of the—you know, the risk for us before was same old, same old. Now I don’t think it’s going to be that at all, and so we’ve just got to once again put ourselves forward as the best option for New Zealanders.

CORIN Same old, same old, but realistically, we’ve heard a lot of talk this week about the ‘kitchen cabinet’, so that’s a group of senior MPs that, effectively, are calling most of the shots. What’s actually changed about that kitchen cabinet? I mean, it’s pretty much the same; everyone has just sort of maybe moved up one.

STEVEN Well, firstly, I would say you shouldn’t presume that that’s the actual state of events. Yes, there is a senior group of ministers who provide advice to the prime minister of the day, but actually, there’s lots of ministers that haven’t been in that group who’ve had some very very significant policy reforms, and actually, to suggest that everything runs through that group would be wrong; it runs through the cabinet system. Genuinely, that’s my experience of it; I’ve been part of it. There’s plenty of people, for example, in recent times like Amy and Anne Tolley that haven’t been part of that group, but they’ve made very very significant reforms, and then in terms of change, there will be change. I mean, up to Bill, obviously, in terms of what that change will be.

CORIN Front-bench change?

STEVEN Well, again, he’s got to make that call. I wouldn’t even presume to do that. First, he’s got to get confirmed by the caucus tomorrow and Paula confirmed as deputy, and then after that, he will, obviously, sit down and one of the things he’ll look at is the make-up of his cabinet.

CORIN Okay, so personalities will change, but what about the overall direction of the government? I mean, Bill English – you could argue, perhaps, slightly more ideological than John Key – John Key, the pragmatist? You know, are we going to see a more driven government that wants to push through perhaps less government intervention, for example?

STEVEN I think, you know, one of the hallmarks and virtues of this government has been that it has been sensible, predictable, pragmatic. Yes, of course, we all have a National-party view of life, which is, you know, encouraging the individual and their families to succeed. All those things are really important, but I think we’ve shown a flexibility and an ability to respond to circumstances, and I don’t think Bill is, you know, not in step with that at all. He’s completely in step with that.

CORIN Yeah, sure, the public views Bill as the stable, sensible option…

STEVEN That’s right.

CORIN …and yourself too, but they always had and saw John Key as the great salesman, if you like, the communicator. You don’t have that any more. Where do you find that?

STEVEN Well, actually, firstly, I think it’ll be different. There’s no point saying it won’t be different, and it won’t be the s—you know, it’ll be different people in different roles, and different people would emerge. Paula, for example, has huge communication skills. Bill does too, actually, but he’s been quite happy to sit, you know, in the background, one off the shoulder of John. John’s done a fantastic job for us, but this is—everybody’s going to be trying new roles and new opportunities. That’s the way it’s going to work.

CORIN But there’s a tension there if Paula is—You know, let’s face it, it’s politics. If she’s got too much of the limelight and overshadowing her leader, that’s not going to work either, is it?

STEVEN Well, look, I think you’ll see Bill run it as a team. He’s always been of the view—So, for example, I’ve been his associate on the economic side. He’s been always more than happy for me to have my say, to communicate some of the things that are important to the government around innovation and skills and so on, and I think he’ll take that approach as leader, but he’ll fashion his own way through it. I think, you know, he’s very authentic; he’s very straight-forward, and he’s not going to sort of dive off in different directions, but there will be a freshness of some new policy positions. I mean, it is quite an opportunity for a stocktake for us. We were going to do that anyway; we were heading into a period—

CORIN Well, you better give us some hints on what they are.

STEVEN No, well, not today, no.

CORIN Well, let’s start with superannuation, surely, because that promise was fundamental, wasn’t it – John Key’s promise that he would resign if he raised the age of super. Now, Bill this week has said he’s not going to make that promise. Are you, as potential Finance Minister, in the same camp?

STEVEN Well, here’s the deal – we’re not going to talk policy today. There’s a caucus tomorrow, which first of all has to confirm its views that it’s expressed publicly over the last few weeks, and then, actually, I think what’ll happen – and Bill and I have already talked about this in terms of the finance context – is that we’ve got the opportunity of late December, early January to just go ahead and do a bit of a stocktake of where we’re at, an opportunity to freshen policy—

CORIN That’s interesting, though, isn’t it, a stocktake, because are you sort of saying that, you know, you can really rewrite the script a bit here? Things that maybe you didn’t want – you were under pressure on housing, for example, or government home-building – things like that could be back on the table now that we’ve had this—?

STEVEN I wouldn’t overplay it as a dramatic change. All I’m saying is that after eight years, we were very conscious of the need to do this anyway, and then the former prime minister – as he’s about to be, about to be former Prime Minister John Key – made the call last week, and that just brings that into sharper relief, because we will get the opportunity to go through some things.

CORIN Because let’s face it, you’re under massive pressure on housing. That’s the big one, isn’t it? Is there an opportunity—?

STEVEN Well, actually, I think the housing thing’s been making very good progress.

CORIN Sure, you’ve been throwing everything at it. We know that, but are you saying there’s an opportunity to do something fresh in housing, to have another go?

STEVEN No, I’m not saying about any portfolio, Corin, because that would be presumptive of me, and, you know, firstly, because caucus hasn’t even met yet to confirm the appointments of Bill and Paula, even though they’re the only nominees for the respective positions, and then secondly, we all will want to—you know, then there’ll be a cabinet that going to be put together, and all the ministers will have their views about how things might change, and we’ll form a collective view with caucus.

CORIN But it’s the sentiment that quite remarkable, isn’t it, because after eight years in government, you’re actually saying that you think you’ve got the opportunity here to go to the electorate and say, ‘Well, we’ve made mistakes’ or ‘We’ve done wrong’ or whatever.

STEVEN No, no, no, it’s just more of a freshening. I mean, when you’ve had policy positions which have been evolving over eight years, we always said to ourselves, ‘Actually, you’re heading into an election for a fourth term.’ You have to go through a process of head-checking yourselves on all your policy positions, and many will stay the same, and a few will change, because circumstances change. So this just brings that into sharper relief, that’s all. We were actually going to do it anyway. You probably weren’t going to spend too much time talking about it, but now here we are, a new leader and a new deputy leader and a new team, and so, yes, I’m sure you’ll spend more time talking about it.

CORIN As the presumptive Finance Minister, is there something that you want to bring to the job, perhaps that Bill wasn’t doing? I mean, you were very focused in the export space and economic development; he was very focused in social policy. Is there a—? Can you just give us a sense of perhaps not policy but flavour or tone that you will bring to the job that is different?

STEVEN Well, I don’t think it’ll be massively different. I mean, I have been an MP for eight years, and for the eight years that I’ve been an MP, I’ve been Bill’s Associate Finance Minister. He’s had two, but I’ve been the one that’s sort of been there through the whole eight years. So we do understand each other very well and the positions that we’ve adopted in the Finance portfolio I’ve contributed to over that eight-year period, as has Paula more recently, and so I don’t think you’ll see dramatic change in that respect. I certainly don’t think the country’s looking for dramatic change. I mean, one of the stories of New Zealand at the moment is how well it’s doing under the current economic policies relative to most of the rest of the world in what is, you know, a pretty fragile time still, but you’ll see, again, some changes of emphasis at the margins, but I want to have the opportunity to think about that as well. This time a week ago, I was going to be the Minister of Economic Development heading into next year; now I’m having the opportunity maybe to be the Minister of Finance.

CORIN Just on tax cuts – do you have the same stance as Bill English on this one? I mean, on Thursday it was still in the mix but perhaps not quite the same priority. Is that a reasonable assessment?

STEVEN I think it’s something you’ve always got to be thinking about, because I think it’s important that you don’t forget the fact – no politician should forget – is that the money that they get to spend comes from hard-working Kiwis. That’s the reality of it. I mean, people often forget about that, but actually, that is the reality of it. This is money that otherwise they’d spend themselves on their families and so on. So you have to keep thinking about that, but as we’ve always said, we’ve got about four things that we’re really focused on. Yes, paying down debt’s got to be one of those things, investing in public services – we’ve got a growing country; we’ve got to make sure we do that – and investing in infrastructure. I mean, Kaikoura has reminded us the resilience of infrastructure is really important. I was there on Friday, and, you know, that’s very top of mind and will be top of mind for Kiwis all over the country.

CORIN But you’re saying—

STEVEN But you’ve got to keep tax on the table.

CORIN …under a Steven-Joyce Finance Minister, tax cuts are still very much there.

STEVEN All I’m saying is that it’s one of the things in the mix, as it was before the changes of last week.

CORIN Steven Joyce, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much.

STEVEN Cheers.


Transcript provided by Able. www.able.co.nz

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