On The Nation: Patrick Gower interviews Gareth Morgan
Headlines:
Opportunities Party leader Gareth Morgan says he doesn’t support raising the age of superannuation but does want means testing. Under his policy everyone would get a Universal Basic Income of $10,000 a year from the age of 65 - you could get more if you retire or are on a low income.
Morgan says younger voters need to “get off their butts”. He says his party has done a poll on what would get voters to the polling booth and the top issue was cannabis law reform. But he won’t commit to legalising cannabis, saying “that’s a different issue” and ‘we’re going to have a deliberate democracy discussion on that”.
Lisa Owen: When aspiring politician Gareth Morgan launched The Opportunities Party, he compared himself to an anti-establishment Donald Trump. Of course, Trump went on to win, but Morgan is seen as even more of an underdog, so can he make it into Parliament? Well, Gareth Morgan joins Paddy now.
Patrick Gower: Gareth Morgan, when you started this whole thing, you said you were going to light a fuse under Parliament, but nothing has happened. There’s been no boom — anything but. It’s a whimper. What’s gone wrong?
Gareth Morgan: Just be patient. We only started talking to the people directly this week. Spoke in Invercargill, Dunedin —couple of hundred people in Invers, sell-out 350 in Dunedin. It’s happening. I mean, it’s really good fun to talk to people directly rather than through media, you know, and the quality of the Q + A is just phenomenal. So I’m quietly confident.
There’s six months to go.
Yeah, well, you know, I said before with seven people in the team, seven policies and seven months to go, how’s that for an underdog?
Let’s look at one of them, then. Superannuation, you’re going to announce that on Tuesday. I presume you are interested in raising the age up to 67 or beyond?
No, you assume wrong.
What? Means testing?
Yeah, yeah. What I want to do is, as part of an announcement on the start of the UBI — you know, universal income for everybody — and I’ve got to get the money for it from somewhere. And at the moment, the only universal benefit that I can see out there is Super. So when I do all the maths of what a UBI for the whole population can be, that’s about half the level of Super per head. So the first thing to do with Super is to means-test it. We’ll divide Super in two. 10 grand, here’s your UBI. And the top-up — yeah, you can have it, but only if you need it.
So everybody in New Zealand gets $10,000 under your UBI.
That’s where we’ll end up eventually.
And under means testing, someone who owns five houses wouldn’t get superannuation? What about someone who’s working?
Fine. They get it.
No, superannuation.
No, well, they get the UBI. They don’t get the means-tested top-up, no. Well, it depends on what their total income is. But, you know, Paddy, I’m about to get— Joanne and I, we’re about to turn over here, so we’re about to get 40K into this family. I don’t need a blimmin’ cent of it. Meanwhile, we’ve got, you know, people with young families and that who are at the bottom end of this inequality gap and this poverty thing and this unaffordability of housing. I mean, what are we doing? This is just insane, and the interesting thing from these talks in Dunedin and Christchurch is when I talk to oldies like me, they are ready to invest in their grandkids. So it’s a myth to actually say that the boomers want it all to ourselves.
Yeah, but are we looking at—? With what the government’s done here, are we looking at some sort of intergenerational divide building between boomers and the rest? Or are we looking at the vibe that’s already there getting worse?
I think it’s going to get worse. I mean, basically, what Bill English announced was a policy that’s not a policy. I mean, I’ll be 76 by the time that thing even starts, so he’s not actually facing up to the problem, and you’ve seen Andrew Little, who said, ‘Let’s take it to 67,’ and now says, ‘Oh, no, let’s not take it to 6…’ I mean, these guys, these establishment parties full of these career politicians specialise in doing nothing, so what I act—because that saves their jobs, so what I’m saying — if you want to do nothing, vote for Labour or vote for National — makes no difference. If you want to go forward, vote for us. If you want to go backwards, vote for Peters.
Yeah, but looking at that, I mean, you’re looking at getting Gen X or Gen Y and millennials, I take it, in terms of taking on the baby boomers. Is that what it would sort of take to stop these—?
No. No, I just want any person who cares about New Zealand beyond themselves and their immediate family, and those people are right across the board. They’re not necessarily just lefties.
But what would it take to shift this, though, to shift the, kind of, baby boomers having a hold on things like superannuation? Surely you believe that it’s getting the younger generations out to vote?
Well, that’s part of it. They’ve got to get off their butts. I mean, we did a poll on that. ‘What would get you out of bed in the morning, you know, to come down to the polls and actually say you care?’ And do you know what the top thing was?
What?
Cannabis law reform. I mean, if ever there was a blimmin’ first world problem, it’s that, isn’t it? So, yeah, they are responsible, the younger voters, to a degree. You know, their negligence is causing this.
Would you legalise cannabis?
Well, that’s a different issue. It’s a different issue. What, just to get them into the polls?
Yeah, no, just, quickly.
No, we’re going to have a deliberative democracy discussion on that.
Okay, moving back to where we are. Why, then, would young people or younger generations get off their butt for you? You’re a 67-year-old millionaire.
64!
A 64-year-old millionaire! Sorry, sorry, sorry. You’re a 64-year-old millionaire, why would they get off their butts for you!
Because it’s the strength of the argument. And it’s the same with anybody out there. I’ve got this enormous faith - if you give the public full information, it’s incredibly rational on any decision. That’s my job this year. It’s just to inform people. That is why they’re turning out. They will make the call, not me. They’ll either say, ‘Back on your bike, Gareth. Very nice, but we don’t wanna know you,’ or, ‘Let’s get on with it now.’
I think there you said it, you know, you’re trying to inform people. Is that what you are, an ideas man? You’re not really a politician, are you? You’re not really here to make it into parliament. You’re here to get your ideas out there.
I’m here to get the seven policies as much traction as I can. I mean, my ideal scenario would be the Nats or Labour, whoever’s going to be government, say, ‘We’ll do it all, Gareth, now bugger off.’ I would love that. So I’m not going in there for a job. I’m going in there to try and make New Zealand better because we can do it.
What I’m saying is, are you really serious about it? Because it seems that it’s your ideas that you’re more pushing, rather than a realistic chance of making parliament. I mean, have you got anyone who’s even interested in standing with you yet?
Most people who I respect, who I would want to stand, so I have worked with in the past or are authorities in the area, when I’m talking to them say, ‘Jeez, I’m not going near that toxic environment. You think I’m going to put my family at risk?’ And I’m thinking, ‘Come on, you’re a New Zealander.’ It’s a bit like when I took on cats, you know, and I got these phone calls saying, ‘We support you.’ And I’d say, ‘Well, stand up with me then.’ ‘Oh, God, no. Not doing that.’
So, politics is as toxic as taking out cats. I think that’s a good place to leave it. Gareth Morgan, thank you for joining us.
Thanks, Paddy.

© Scoop Media