Q+A: Jessica Mutch Interviews Gerry Brownlee
Sunday 30 June, 2013
Jessica Mutch
Interviews Gerry Brownlee
Q+A,
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Q+A
JESSICA
MUTCH INTERVIEWS GERRY
BROWNLEE
JESSICA
MUTCH
Minister, good morning, and thank you for your time this
morning.
GERRY BROWNLEE - Transport and
Earthquake Recovery
Minister
Morning, Jess.
JESSICA
$10 billion. Where’s that money coming
from?
GERRY
Well, you’ve got to see it in the context of a
$60 billion plan for Auckland over a longer period of years
and that being part of what is a gap in already committed
funding, and therefore that being a challenge for not only
Auckland but also for the government. But when you’re
looking at these things, you have to make those commitments
because of the other aspects that you see. So, Auckland is a
growing city. You can look at the demographics that are
projected, and I think you can take a fair bet that
they’ll be on the light side. So trying to future-proof is
what this is all
about.
JESSICA So is
this about future-proofing and making
commitments?
GERRY
Yes, it is.
JESSICA
But you’ve got to also allocate where the
money’s coming from. How much of that will come from the
asset sales fund?
GERRY
There are two National Land Transport Fund
programmes that will be in the intervening time before, say,
the rail link. What we have said, of course, is that those
other five, we think, very significant roading projects that
we want to bring forward. We’ll talk to Auckland Transport
about the optimal time for those, then we would look to fund
those either from general taxation. Some of the future fund
money may be required for that. But in the end, as a
government, we’ve made a commitment to finding that money,
because we see it as so very important for a developing and
dynamic Auckland.
JESSICA
The government’s also made a commitment to be
back in surplus by 2014/15. That will obviously give you
some more money to play with. Are you reliant on that to
then go on to fund these
projects?
GERRY
I think the programme that Bill English has got us
on is going to deliver that. And you could sort of say,
well, that gives you some more optionality, but the reality
is that it has to fit into all of the government’s
programmes, and our commitments here are more about
acknowledging that Auckland is a big growth hub for the
country and that we do have to have a properly fully
connected transport network across Auckland, and I think
that’s the
difference.
JESSICA
It has to be properly funded as well, though. Have
you written down and worked out exactly where this money
will come from?
GERRY
Well, I’ve just told you what our options are. I
noticed that David Shearer just announced they’re going to
do the rail link in 2016 if he’s prime minister by some
chance, and you never asked him a question about the money.
The reality is-
JESSICA
But it’s just a long way out. What I’m asking
you, though, is that it’s a long way out, and it seems as
though you’re just making commitments, but you’re not
giving us a whole lot in terms of specifics of exactly where
that money will come
from.
GERRY
Well, I’ve just told you that we have a $60
billion spend in front of us. That’s understood between
our transport ministry, our transport agency and transport
Auckland. And if we do all of this just inside the National
Land Transport Fund, then we have funding gap that we’ve
got to work our way through over that period of years. And I
think when you are looking that far out, you’d be kind of
crazy to say, ‘Well, this is exactly how it’s going to
be funded’ right now. We have options. We’ve made that
clear, and the mixed-ownership model with the Future
Investment Fund is part of that, no
question.
JESSICA I
want to ask you specifically is the rail link a good
idea?
GERRY
Well, I think when you look at the population
expansion-
JESSICA
Very simple question, Minister. Is the rail link a
good idea?
GERRY
Well, you can’t ask a simple question that
doesn’t have some qualification to
it.
JESSICA So do
you think it’s a good
idea?
GERRY
Well, we have said that we think it is a good idea,
and we’ve said more than that. That we think the
projections that the Auckland plan has - 46 per cent growth
in employment in the CBD, plus, you know, a significantly
increased rail patronage - are too tough, and we want
to-
JESSICA And we
know that, Minister. In terms of when you have said in the
past-
GERRY
Why do you ask questions if you don’t want
answers?
JESSICA
I’m asking you very specific questions, though,
to be fair. In terms of in the past, you’ve been quite
honest that you haven’t backed the rail link. Has this
been hard to suck it
up?
GERRY No,
no, that’s not true. No, I think that’s not true. I
think that’s a characterisation that our opponents want to
put on it. I’ve had some things to say about the rail link
in the context of it being part of a network, and I think
one of the interesting things is that our opponents don’t
agree with any of the roading projects that are part of this
big plan. So, there are five roading projects in there that
are part of the network to keep Auckland moving. Rail is one
aspect of that and quite apart from that is the second
crossing of the harbour, and they’re just silent on all
that stuff. You can’t just
say-
JESSICA But
with this rail link, though - have you had to suck it
up?
GERRY Hang
on a minute. Hang on a minute. You can’t just say, and
this has been my point all the way through. You can’t just
say, ‘Look, build that rail link, and it’ll fix the
congestion problems.’ That is just putting your head in
the sand. It is a factor and a part of what will be
improving access to the CBD and then, of course, transport
out into the suburbs where people
live.
JESSICA
You’ve also announced a big funding spend-up in
Christchurch as well this week. $2.9 billion for the Crown.
What are the most important projects that that will buy? The
top two or three, let’s
say.
GERRY
Well, I think the infrastructure programme is the
key one, which is the three waters - wastewater, fresh water
and sewerage - and then the road carriage over the top of
that. That is the vast bulk of that funding. $1.8 billion.
The second thing would be the eastern frame, which will
delineate a smaller and tighter CBD. And then I think I
would personally pick the convention centre, because it is a
place that creates activity inside the CBD and brings people
in. What I think sits parallel to
that-
JESSICA Is
this just a big vote-buying exercise for Christchurch and
Auckland?
GERRY
Uh, no. All of these things have been out there for
some time. Can I just finish on the Christchurch thing?
We’ve also got the property centre inside government
looking at some 20 tenancies inside the CBD to try and
encourage more private sector development as well. And
there’s now quite a clamour for land in the CBD. So if you
think from a NZ Inc. economic perspective, having
Christchurch go into a pretty bad, deep recession as a
result of this disaster hasn’t happened. We’ve actually
got the reverse happening. So from that point of view, these
are very sound and, I think, well thought-through
investments. As for vote
gathering-
JESSICA
We’ll have to leave it there, I’m sorry,
Minister. We’ll have to leave it there, but thank you very
much for your time this morning. I really appreciate
it.
GERRY No
problem. Thanks,
Jess.
ENDS