TVNZ 1 Q+A: Prime Minister Bill English
TVNZ 1 Q+A: Prime Minister Bill English interviewed by Corin Dann
I wouldn’t support changing abortion law –
Prime Minister Bill English
The Abortion Supervisory Committee has recommended updating our abortion laws but Prime Minister Bill English told Corin Dann he’s not in favour of the move.
‘That’s right, I’m not, and I wouldn’t vote for legislation that did.’
CORIN What about a law that just
updated it, modernised it, which is what they’re calling
for?
BILL
Well, I think what they mean is liberalise it, and
we wouldn’t do that.
Prime Minister Bill English denied that the changes announced to Superannuation this week are a political manoeuvre designed to protect supporters.
CORIN It seems deeply
cynical. It seems like, to many people, you are protecting
your voters — older, wealthier New Zealanders.
BILL No, I simply
don’t agree with that. This is the time to lay out a path
to the inevitable. Of course there will be a bit of debate
about the transition. We believe that it’s fair and
reasonable.
Bill English also signalled he would like to overhaul Working For Families.
‘We are not quite there yet, so another few years of the technology will mean that we can move families much more to a real-time understanding of their incomes, because whatever the level for families claiming in Working For Families it’s a bit of a risk, because they don’t quite know what’s going to happen, whether they will have to pay money back. So that is the kind of opportunity, two to three years out, ahead of us.’
When asked about tax cuts Prime Minister Bill English said, ‘I wouldn’t expect some big sugar shot in the middle to higher income range.’
Please find the full transcript attached and you can view the interview here.
Q+A, 9-10am
Sundays on TVNZ 1 and one hour later on TVNZ 1 + 1. Repeated
Sunday evening at 11:35pm. Streamed live atwww.tvnz.co.nz
Thanks to the support from NZ On
Air.
Q+A is on Facebook,
http://www.facebook.com/NZQandA#!/NZQandA
and on Twitter, http://twitter.com/#!/NZQandA
Q + A
Episode
1
BILL
ENGLISH
Interviewed by CORIN
DANN
CORIN I sat down with Prime
Minister Bill English on Friday — his first interview for
Q+A since he took the top job. This week he surprised many
by taking on a tricky issue his predecessor had avoided —
superannuation. So what about that other sacred cow — a
capital gains
tax?
BILL New
Zealand has reviewed that issue a couple of times in the
last 15 years, and at both times the experts have come to a
conclusion it’s not worth implementing a broad capital
gains tax. There are other more significant
issues—
CORIN But
do you agree that as a long-term issue, there’s a problem
here in terms of where the money in New Zealand goes to;
it’s going into all the housing. You must see
that.
BILL I
don’t think that’s driven by the details of capital
gains tax. It’s driven by the
fact—
CORIN Or a land tax or whatever you need to do.
BILL Well, it’s
driven by the fact that when more people turn up, as is
happening in this country — fewer Kiwis leaving, more
people turning up; growth, progress, some real dynamism in
the economy — our system for supplying housing has to be
more
responsive.
CORIN Sure.
So you’re not going to tackle that particular tax issue?
That’s not a long-term issue you want to deal
with?
BILL That’s
right. We’re not going to be making big
changes.
CORIN Okay.
What about some other ones, sacred cows — TVNZ, New
Zealand Post, KiwiBank? Are you going to sell
those?
BILL Well,
no, we’re not planning to sell them. They’ve all got
their own particular challenges. But when you look out
ahead, the question is — are those the biggest issues in
supporting our economic growth? And they probably
aren’t.
CORIN Well,
some might just say they’re political headaches for you,
but really, deep down, you’d much rather do without
them.
BILL Well,
look, it might be simpler if someone else was running them,
but we have always said we’re going to keep those
government-owned
organisations.
CORIN For
political
reasons.
BILL Well,
but also they’re quite complicated. As you know, in the
media, there’s a lot of change going on in the media.
TVNZ’s a constant for still hundreds of thousands of
viewers, just as RNZ is, and we’re quite happy with that
situation.
CORIN Here’s
the thing about this Super change this week. I’m
Generation X; I’m going to have to, presumably, if your
policy ever comes into force, work right through to 67. I
don’t have a problem with that, necessarily. I think a lot
of people under 45 can see that it seems a bit crazy that
they might live to 95 and have 30 years on Super. But what
we can’t understand is why the baby boomers and the tail
end of the baby boomers aren’t paying their fair share of
that. It seems grossly
unfair.
BILL I
don’t agree with that. I mean, one of the things that’s
happened in New Zealand that’s, I think, a good long-term
trend is because people are healthier and living longer,
they’re also working longer. So the age groups 60, 65
through to 70 have much higher proportion of them are now in
work. And in that sense, they’re paying their own way,
which is a great thing. And then today I was with 50 of our
school leaders, 17-year-olds, 18-year-olds, and this
decision is as much about them as it is about
50-year-olds.
CORIN I’m
sure they get it, but you’re telling a 45-year-old who
also had to— under 45 who’s also had to pay for a
student loan that they’re suddenly going to have to get a
double whammy here, yet a whole generation doesn’t. It
seems deeply cynical. It seems like, to many people, you are
protecting your voters — older, wealthier New
Zealanders.
BILL No,
I simply don’t agree with that. This is the time to lay
out a path to the inevitable. Of course there will be a bit
of debate about the transition. We believe that it’s fair
and
reasonable.
CORIN 20
years?
BILL That’s
right. We believe it’s fair and reasonable. Gives people
time to adjust. It is interesting how politics shift. I
mean, a week ago, people would say, ‘Don’t even raise
the
issue.’
CORIN No,
I think there are many people who are commending you
for—
BILL And now
they’re telling us we should go faster and
higher.
CORIN Sure. You are standing on
part of the moral high ground here. You get to say that
you’re making a hard call. I give you that. But it does
seem unfair that there is a big chunk who aren’t going to
have to bear that burden, and it would just happen to be a
big chunk of your
voters.
BILL Well,
look, each generation bears its own burdens. Any number of
60-year-olds can tell you how devastating it was to have 18%
inflation when they were trying to save a dollar back in the
early ‘80s. So I don’t think that is that helpful. Look,
people can argue for a shorter or longer transition. I’m
sure that discussion will go
on.
CORIN Because
you actually said this week to me, you said that you’d
much rather live in this economy than the economy, perhaps,
that the baby boomers had when they were trying to buy
houses and struggling and battling away. Are Generation X
and Generation Y just whingers here? Do we believe Tony
Alexander that they should just stop buying their lattes and
avocado on
toast?
BILL I
don’t think they’re whingers at all, but the economy is
in much better shape than it’s been for a lot of the
period since, say, the mid ‘70s where the rules are
predictable, the incomes are rising consistently, we don’t
have ahead of us the kind of abrupt and major restructuring
that used to occur. And I think a lot of the debate here is
about which political party is going to support the kind of
economic growth that underpins the opportunities a
40-year-old can see ahead of them. I don’t think there’s
much doubt about that. That the approach we are taking —
investing in infrastructure, dealing with our core social
problems, keeping taxes low, controlling government
spending, encouraging entrepreneurs and innovation — all
of those things are going to help that 40-year-old enjoy the
rest of their working
life.
CORIN Are you
going to help that 40-year-old who has three kids and is on
Working For Families? Are you going to help them in the
Budget? I mean, looking at Working For Families now, it’s
10 years old. There is a lot of criticism that it is not
well targeted. Incomes have risen. You have not increased
like you have with Super in terms of to the average wage. Is
it time to fix Working For
Families?
BILL Isn’t
this great that we have got these choices? We have got
strong enough government finances and a growing economy that
we do have the
opportunities.
CORIN Does
it need to be fixed? Yes or
no?
BILL That will
unfold through the year, but I think the opportunity to lift
people’s incomes is real, it is available to us. And the
good news is we can have a crack at it in the next few
years, and if we sustain the economy, we can have another go
in the
future.
CORIN I
get that you’re not going to give away all the details and
you got a budget coming and it is wait-and-see and all this
sort of stuff, but you can tell me whether you think Working
For Families is working properly, because there are a lot of
critics who are saying it is simply
not.
BILL I can
tell you that for families on low to middle incomes, they
need to see a share of economic growth that is not just
through their incomes, which are rising moderately but
consistently, and we have the opportunity to support them
more, and I think that’s
great.
CORIN Through
Working For
Families?
BILL Well,
there’s a number of tools there. That’s one of
them.
CORIN I mean,
could we see Working For Families completely redesigned? I
guess what I’m going at, rather than some tinkering, some
extra accommodation supplement or whatever you might have,
is now the time after 10 years for you to get in there and
do National’s version of it, rewrite
it?
BILL Well,
interestingly, because of a large investment we are making
in the tax collection
system—
CORIN You’ve
got the ability to do it now, haven’t you? You’ve got
the
technology.
BILL We
are not quite there yet, so another few years of the
technology will mean that we can move families much more to
a real-time understanding of their incomes, because whatever
the level for families claiming in Working For Families
it’s a bit of a risk, because they don’t quite know
what’s going to happen, whether they will have to pay
money back. So that is the kind of opportunity, two to three
years out, ahead of
us.
CORIN And one
of those other choices, of course, is tax cuts. And I do not
want to play the game again of wait-and-see and all this
sort of stuff, but you can give us an indication that if —
if —you do a tax cut, will it be meaningful? Will it
actually be $20 plus a week for somebody? Because what’s
the point
otherwise?
BILL Well,
look, we are working through all that. It is a bit of a
challenge with the way the tax system is structured to
target the people who are in real need. So you have got to
look at a balance of tax cuts and other mechanisms. But
it’s great here. We’ve got the
opportunity.
CORIN John
Key said 3 billion to make it
worthwhile.
BILL Well,
I’m not going to put a number on
it.
CORIN But
that’s a meaningful figure. I’m only saying that because
it is a reasonable point, isn’t it? You’ve done this
before — chewing gum tax cuts; block of cheese tax cuts
with the last government. Is there much point if it is not
meaningful?
BILL Well,
we’ll look at the balance of all that, but I wouldn’t
expect some big sugar shot in the middle to higher income
range. Part of the intent here is that in sustaining growth,
we want people to be able to share the benefits of that
growth right across the board. So that ranges from lifting
the minimum wage, which has just gone up $0.50, or will on 1
April, through to the opportunities we have with government
surpluses. And alongside that the other things we need to
achieve — getting our debt back down, contributing to the
Super Fund. So this is all about getting the balance of the
support for families now but the longer term decisions that
are going to sustain our
growth.
CORIN Part
of the reason for this interview is that it’s our first
opportunity to talk to you as Prime Minister. So I think
it’s important that we try and unpick a little bit about
who you are. Now, over the last week or so, you made
comments about— you said something along the lines of a
lot of young Kiwis are failing drug tests, jobseekers.
You’ve in the past made comments about young males being
hopeless, not turning up for work. Seems like you’ve got
quite a harsh view, particularly of those young males. Are
they lazy? What’s going on? Do you think that they
aren’t
trying?
BILL Look,
I’m just realistic. My children are of that generation.
I’ve had interaction with lots of young New Zealanders,
also lots of employers and businesses. We’ve spent a lot
of time, and I’ve personally spent a great deal of time in
this government working on how to support youth more. And
that does need a bit of gritty realism. You can’t pretend
that everyone’s life is fine, that they will all stay on
track if they just get a bit of counselling. This is a bit
of a long, slow job to keep all of our young people on
track. And our social investment analysis tells us it’s
worth doing almost anything to keep a young person on track
to work and off the welfare
track.
CORIN But is
it quite a harsh view of them? And as Prime Minister it’s
different, because you’ve got a much bigger megaphone, and
when you start making comments like that, it’s quite
derogatory, isn’t it, to a big group of New Zealanders.
Because the facts were it’s actually a very small number
of Kiwis who are failing drugs tests for
jobs.
BILL Well,
look, the young people I have been talking to in the last
week, they are not telling me that that’s a harsh view.
They think it’s realistic, and I think it’s
realistic.
CORIN Your
mantra in terms of social investment is hard data, evidence.
‘If you can’t give me the data for a social programme,
I’m not going to fund it.’ That’s what you say. I
mean, we’ve seen it with
programmes.
BILL Well,
it's not quite that
simple.
CORIN But
you want data analysis, don’t
you?
BILL That’s
right. They’ve got to show that it can
work.
CORIN So why
would you stand up in front of the country and make a
comment about drug users based on anecdotal
evidence?
BILL Well,
it is a description of reality, and I know some people
struggle with
that.
CORIN But you
don’t accept that same description when you are funding
your social programmes. You are not going to take anecdotal
evidence. I’ve seen it with getting assistance for young
parents programmes that are
cut.
BILL Well, as
it happens, we are investing extensively in alcohol and drug
support, and a lot of that involves young people. I know
that may be a surprise to some, but one reason we know that
it’s drug use is we invest in these
things…
CORIN But
it wouldn’t be anecdotal evidence telling you that,
though, would
it?
BILL …in our
prisons, through our health services, and increasingly
through our focus on breaking the cycles of long-term
welfare.
CORIN I
guess the point I’m making — do you accept that as Prime
Minister it’s slightly different, isn’t it? That is a
much bigger audience to those sorts of comments you’re
making. Do you accept that there is more gravity to those
words? You’ve got to be more careful, don’t
you?
BILL Well, of
course you’ve got to be a bit careful, but I think people
also want whoever is running the government to be able to
say it basically how it is, to have a realistic
understanding, not a misleading understanding, of how people
live their lives, because if we are wanting to change lives,
which is a strong focus of this government, and change their
life cycle, then we need to be realistic about what
situation people are in.
CORIN And you were
realistic a few years back too, weren’t you, when you said
prisons were a moral failure. Do you still believe
that?
BILL Yes, I
do. We are having to build more prisons. I think that’s
unfortunate. But we have got to deal with the product of our
own
legislation.
CORIN But
what’s the moral bit that you’re concerned
about?
BILL Oh,
just the fact that, particularly for younger people, if they
get into the justice system for relatively minor offending,
they can go in with School C in crime and come out with a
PhD. They just learn how to do
it.
CORIN You could
do something about that, though. You’re in a position now
to do something about that. I mean, do we need to lock
people up for as long? Do we need to lock up so many people
for minor offences? You could change that.
BILL Well,
that’s a discussion, I think, that’s starting to occur,
you see, from the ACT Party — a proposition to relate
literacy achievement to shortening of sentences. Now, I
think that’s a pretty fascinating idea, and it was
surprisingly well received by the
public.
CORIN So
are you in favour of the idea of looking at more realistic
sentences to take the moral and fiscal burden off our
prisons, reduce sentences, perhaps look to ways to get
people more home detention, those sorts of
things?
BILL Well,
look, I like the idea that it’s related to change in the
behaviour of the prisoner, because we have focused a lot of
money and time on trying to break the cycles of reoffending,
and we’ve had some success there, but not near enough yet,
and welcome more propositions that might tie our big
resource we’re putting into that to having fewer people in
prison because behaviour’s changed. But, look, if people
are committing serious crime, under the law, they’re going
to be locked up, and some are going to be locked up a long
time.
CORIN You as
prime minister, if you win this election, it’s pretty
likely that there will be at some point some socially
progressive legislation that comes past — the conscience
vote issues, gay marriage; call it what it is. You said when
you stood, actually, in this building and talked after
becoming Prime Minister that you wouldn’t stand in the way
of that because you’re socially conservative. Why not? Why
not just be who you
are?
BILL Well, my
views about a range of social issues are pretty well known
and fairly consistent in the Parliament, and if issues like,
say, euthanasia arise, people will know where I stand on it
and how I’ll vote on it. That won’t
change.
CORIN But
it’s a different story when you’re Prime Minister
because we saw with John Key when he voted for gay marriage,
that was a big impetus to that legislation. We’ve seen it
with the smacking legislation in previous years gone by.
Prime ministers set the tone, and if you’re socially
conservative, what I’m curious about is how you behave
around a social conscience vote is quite significant. For
example, the Abortion Advisory Committee has recommended an
update of our abortion laws; they’re outdated and clumsy.
Would you stand in the way of that, given that, I’m
presuming, you’re not in favour of liberalising abortions?
BILL That’s
right, I’m not, and I wouldn’t vote for legislation that
did.
CORIN What
about a law that just updated it, modernised it, which is
what they’re calling
for?
BILL Well, I
think what they mean is liberalise it, and we wouldn’t do
that. I mean, it’s a law that’s standed the test of
time. But, look, the Parliament has ways of working with
this. They know how I would vote, but also they can— You
know, I’m focusing on a whole wider set of issues, and
many views that I think have traditionally been regarded as
socially conservative turning out to be pretty useful. For
instance, cracking some of our worst social problems is
about trying to rebuild families that have been shattered by
dependency, offending, abuse, and as a government we’re
focusing on achieving
that.
CORIN I think
you’ll find the Abortion Advisory Committee does not think
it’s standing the test of time and that it’s an
outdated, clumsy, sexist piece of
legislation.
BILL Well,
look, they’re free to have their opinion. They know what
my opinion is. The Parliament would deal with the issue,
I’m sure, one way or another if it came
up.
CORIN But
would you stand in the way of it? You’re Prime Minister;
you’re signalling that’s something you’re not
interested in
reforming.
BILL Well,
I’m signalling that as a parliamentarian with one vote out
of 121, and I hope others would vote with
me.
CORIN Yeah, but
the most important vote, isn’t
it?
BILL Well, no,
on conscience issues you are just one vote. I’ve seen this
process work in the past, and I’d vote my
way.
CORIN But it
sets the tone, doesn’t
it?
BILL Well,
look, if it does, in that case, I’m quite happy that it
sets the tone of not rushing into big changes in abortion
law.
Transcript
provided by Able.
www.able.co.nz