Susan Wood interviews Steve Maharey, Massey University Vice Chancellor

The Vice Chancellor of Massey University Steve Maharey says Massey is open to a merger with Lincoln. “So the proposition sits on the table and really depends on what Lincoln wants to do.”
 
And the former Minister is not interested in a return to politics.
 
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Q+A
 
SUSAN WOOD INTERVIEWS STEVE MAHAREY
 
 
SUSAN WOOD
                        Good morning, Steve Maharey.
 
STEVE MAHAREY - Massey University Vice Chancellor
                        Good morning, Susan.
 
SUSAN           Now, those TV commercials [advertising Massey University] relying fairly heavily on you to front them. Why are you fronting them?
 
STEVE            Well, the advertising company who does the ads suggested that the kind of ads they often see with tertiary education systems are a little bit flat and boring. They said, ‘Why don’t we try something different? Why don’t we try putting you on the screen?’ And I have to say, I was a bit reluctant to start with because I have been there, done that. But it was good fun.
 
SUSAN           I was going to say that as a middle-aged woman to a middle-aged man, what appeal does a middle-aged man have to attract young students to a university?
 
STEVE            Well, that’s exactly one of the things I worried about as well, but, of course, one of the differences between ourselves and other universities is we have a lot of mature students. We’re a lifelong learning institution, if you like. So many of extramurals, for example, are people who are in their 30s, 40s, 50s. So there’s an appeal, hopefully, to them. But we did the first ad. They did the market testing. They said, ‘It’s showing up ok, so let’s try the second ad.’ So that’s why we’re doing it.
 
SUSAN           How much are you spending on them?
 
STEVE            We spend around about $100,000 on those ads, because they’re pretty high quality ads. We’re one of the lowest spending of the universities in this area-
 
SUSAN           But then you’ve got to broadcast them, so what’s the spend on that?
 
STEVE            I’ll have to go and check, but around about-
 
SUSAN           But are we talking millions of dollars here?
 
STEVE            Oh, no, no, no. Nothing like that.
 
SUSAN           But hundreds of thousands of dollars.
 
STEVE            Yes, it’s a sort of flagship for us within our budget. We would spend most of our time, though, these days in social media. That’s where we spend our effort.
 
SUSAN           Have you got any evidence that this is money well spent?
 
STEVE            Yes, in the sense that we obviously do what anybody does with their advertising, and we go out and find out what the reaction is to it to make sure that we’re on the right track. And as far as we can see, if we have a look, for example, people’s awareness of Massey in the Auckland area, which was very low prior to these ads, we’ve bounced into second place behind Auckland. So, yes, it makes an impact, and that should turn into the things that we want it to turn into, which is to build our reputation.
 
SUSAN           Looking at NZ as a whole, we’re a very small country, as we all know. What is the point of spending taxpayer-funded money from your university or in fact any other to attract students away from other universities? You’re spending taxpayer money against each other.
 
STEVE            Yeah, the competition over students isn’t all that great these days because the system is capped, so you can’t necessarily grow your domestic student body. But competition over reputation is huge because you have to get the number of students you have forecast, otherwise your funding can be withdrawn from you. And, of course, you’re trying to establish not just your reputation around recruiting students, but around your research and increasing your engagement. For example, in Taranaki we’ve just started a major engagement with the Taranaki area around food. And part of what we’re doing in that area is to start a new role for universities, which is what we call our, sort of, third area of work, which is this direct engagement with the community around short courses, around research, around contracts, around consultancy. So I think all universities are seeking to establish a clear, different message so they know they can work in an area which people recognise them for.
 
SUSAN           And yet we see a lot of overlaps, certainly in terms of geography. Back in the olden days, Waikato University was here, Auckland University was here, Otago was down south. Does it make sense to have all these overlapping universities geographically?
 
STEVE            Yes, they’re all national universities because, of course, if you’re going to be a medical student, you’re going to go to Otago or Auckland. So it’s a national university. You’re going to be a vet, you’re going to come to us. If you’re going to do various other courses, you’ll go to those different universities.
 
SUSAN           So there’s not too much duplication of services. I mean, AUT, for example, in Auckland is now offering a law degree, and I have wondered at the wisdom of that. Do we need another law degree in Auckland or NZ?
 
STEVE            I guess that’s up to the funder as to whether they want one. But there is overlap. But, of course, if you’re going to have a real university, then you are going to teach a comprehensive range of disciplines. But the key these days, and this is because we’re not competing really nationally anymore; we’re competing internationally. That’s what the rankings are all about - internationally now. So what you’re doing is saying comprehensive offering at Auckland University or Massey or wherever, but we want to be known for the following kinds of things that really attract people to us.
 
SUSAN           Overseas students - more money in the budget to attract them, but we are struggling as a nation to get the number we want. Why?
 
STEVE            Because it’s become hugely competitive. It’s changed since I was minister. For example, when there was a real push to get international students, we were probably one of the three or four countries that was heavily marketing to try and go and get those students. Now the US post the Global Financial Crisis, places like Harvard, who would have never marketed before - they would have just relied on their name - are now in Asia actively marketing against universities like our own. So it has become enormously competitive, but on the upside, the number of people looking for tertiary education is enormous, so the opportunities are huge.
 
SUSAN           So how do NZ universities market themselves against something with a name like Harvard?
 
STEVE            Well, once again, it goes back to the formula I mentioned before. You have to identify what you’re good at. There’s no point in going off and saying ‘Harvard does X, and I do it too. Let’s have a go at competing with you.’ But if you turn up in Asia and say, ‘I come from Massey University. I’m the 21st ranked university in the world for agriculture, and by the way, we’re an agricultural nation,’ people start listening. So you’ve got to play to your individual strengths.
 
SUSAN           Fees. I mean, at Massey you continue to lobby to go above the 4 per cent increase per year. Why?
 
STEVE            Well, Massey has a particular problem. They froze fees at one year. 2004, I think it was. And prior to that, set their fees quite low when the whole issue of fees was around. And as a result, Massey on the whole has a lower fee structure than most universities. So what we’ve been saying to the government is please review the fees so that was can pull up to the bumper of other universities, and it’s often said yes, but then they say no. So we’re still waiting for that to be resolved.
 
SUSAN           You know, Steve Maharey, as I was sitting preparing this interview over the week, I was thinking most of it, we are talking about money. We’re talking about international fees from students, we’re talking about bums on seats. Is it too much focused on that now? On the funding?
 
STEVE            The word I’ve been using all the way through is reputation, because money actually isn’t the focus, and if it is, your university is not going to make it. Universities around the world that have become businesses often crash and burn.
 
SUSAN           How much of your time do you spend on reputation, and how much of your time do you spend on actually making sure you’ve got the bums on seats so you get the funding?
 
STEVE            Well, a Vice Chancellor these days is pretty much a CEO. So you spend a lot of your time on the nuts and bolts of your organisation. How many students? What are they doing? How much money are you making? Etc.
 
SUSAN           So you do spend a lot of time on money.
 
STEVE            But my big focus is always reputation. Always on reputation. In fact, we have a little mantra in our university which is that reputation is everything, and success will flow from that. So don’t get misdirected into thinking it will be solved by other ways of doing things.
 
SUSAN           So how do you protect your reputation when, in this country, we have seen instances of cheating?
 
STEVE            Mm.
 
SUSAN           You know, very elaborate cheating. We’re talking whole essays, whole topics written in cheating, and it seems universities did not know it was happening.
 
STEVE            Well, cheating is not new. You would have known people around you at university who may have been pushing the envelope just a little. It has become more difficult, of course, though, with electronic means of writing your essay and so on. So there are whole new things to do. There’s a product called Turn It In, which a lecturer can use to say, ‘Hmm, a bit suspicious about this piece of work. I pop it in and check it.’
 
SUSAN           Do you lecturers come up with suspicions? Do you get-?
 
STEVE            Yes, we had 56 of them last year. And to go back to your point, let me reassure people that no university at the moment has any evidence whatsoever of what was called in the newspaper ‘commercial-level cheating.’ And certainly we’ve got no particular group of students that we could point to. So what we know is we have some of it. What we know is we catch some of them. What we know is we have elaborate systems and policies in place, and of course now we’re doing a review post the revelation, as it was called. All universities are now caught up in replying to questions from the government to say, ‘What are you doing? What do you know about this?’
 
SUSAN           Christchurch. University of Canterbury, we know, for very obvious reasons, is struggling. Lincoln also. Is a merger between Lincoln and Massey the most logical outcome there?
 
STEVE            Well, from our point of view, the door is open. But from the point of view of Lincoln, of course, they’re a very proud independent university with a long history. So they are wanting to make sure that they do everything they can to remain as they want to be, which is an independent university. But from our point of view, numerous people have approached us to say, ‘What would you do about this? Would you be open to it?’ And our answer is of course, ‘Yes, if it’s useful. But if it’s not, then we’ve got other things to do.’ So the proposition sits on the table and really depends on what Lincoln wants to do.
 
SUSAN           Now, I know you love your role as Vice Chancellor, but any thoughts of a return to politics?
 
STEVE            Absolutely not. 18 years was great. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I’m thoroughly enjoying this.
 
SUSAN           Thank you for your time, this morning.
 
ENDS