Sunday 3rd April, 2011

Q+A’s Guyon Espiner interviews Judith Tizard.

The interview has been transcribed below. The full length video interviews and panel discussions from this morning’s Q+A can also be seen on tvnz.co.nz at, http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news

Q+A is broadcast live on TV ONE between 9-10am on Sunday mornings and repeated on TVNZ 7 at 9.10pm on Sunday nights and 10.10am and 2.10pm on Mondays.

JUDITH TIZARD interviewed by GUYON ESPINER

GUYON ESPINER
Thank you, Judith Tizard. I don’t know what you’re going to do, the country doesn’t seem to know what you’re going to do. Are you going to come back to Parliament?

JUDITH TIZARD – Former MP
Well, the problem was I didn’t know what I was going to do. I made a commitment three years ago to go on the list, and a lot of people have been saying if MMP list means anything, you’ve got to go back. Um, I’ve been ill. I’ve built a new life since leaving Parliament. Um, I am really concerned about bullying. And I think the integrity of our constitutional arrangements means that outsiders – whether they’re unelected party officials or news media – should not try and weigh in and make decisions for individuals about how they deal with the lists which have been voted on.

GUYON So you’re coming back?

JUDITH I’ve looked at it, and I have probably changed my mind three times a day for the last week. I’ve been incredibly busy. If I was going to come back, I had to organise my life. Um, I also wanted to give friends and family and lots of other people a chance to talk. I spoke to Phil Goff. Andrew Little finally rang me on Monday. Um, I have thought really hard about it. There’s a lot of unfinished business. Um, not making a valedictory means I also can’t defend my reputation, and I’m a bit tired after winning nine elections in 18 years in Parliament, uh, I think with a very successful career. I got the anti-mining legislation in—

GUYON So, just to be clear, you’re coming back to Parliament?

JUDITH I believe that Auckland matters, I believe that we’re in an economic crisis and the National government has no plan, and they’re going round like finance company touts, trying to get us to mortgage the house again, selling ACC and our power companies. I despise what they are doing to NZ and the fact that they have no plan. However, I also despise the fact that this whole debate has become personalised. I think that the Labour Party has got to provide open, decent, inclusive leadership, and they do have a plan. But I’ve decided, and I’m sorry for everyone who feels that I’ve been delaying, that I’m not coming back. First, because it’s not good for me. Second, I don’t think it’s good for the Labour Party. I think that they are being distracted, and they need to get on and focus on the election and win that. And, third, I don’t think it’s good for NZ, because I think my going back would be an attack on MMP, and I believe MMP’s a good system. Much better.

GUYON Do you feel you were bullied out of this by the Labour Party?

JUDITH No, I feel that I have been bullied out of it by an obsession, frankly, in the media for personalising political debates, and it’s not about Judith Tizard.

GUYON OK, but, um, the party president made it very clear – and you talked about the integrity of MMP. He made it very clear he didn’t want you, and he didn’t want the other ones on the list. He wanted Louisa Wall, which is—

JUDITH Five people were supposed to stand aside, so why do we waste our time, as all the political parties, choosing lists if an unelected official can then weigh in and say, ‘You five have got to stand aside’? One of the elderly Samoan ladies at the Labour list conference in Auckland made that point to me.

GUYON So you see this as an attack on the integrity of MMP?

JUDITH Yes, I do. And I don’t like bullying, and normally I would stand up, and that’s the main reason I’ve been thinking of going back.

GUYON That’s why I asked you who the bully here was.

JUDITH Well, the bully is also, of course, NZ Herald, who are behaving like—

GUYON OK, well, let’s not talk about the other media—

JUDITH No, but you asked me who the bullies were. The bullies are people who are protecting their property interest or their sectoral interest who are coming to MPs, and outside influence on MPs is actually against the law.

GUYON Do you think that the current Labour leadership…? Obviously you didn’t want to be part of that team. Do you think they can win? Do you think Phil Goff can win?

JUDITH No, the problem was, Guyon, I did want to be part of the team. I’ve always been part of the team. That’s always how I’ve worked. Everything I’ve achieved – whether it was for Auckland, getting transport up and sorted, um, getting the basis of the motorways finished, the bases so that we can get a good
public-transport system – I desperately want to be part of it. My grandfather used to say, ‘Politics is as good as you make it. What have you done to fix it?’ I’ve always gone in boots and all.

GUYON OK, and you’ve got a long history with the Labour Party. What do you see when you look at the Labour Party now?

JUDITH I see people who have got lots of ideas, but I don’t think they have a coherent plan to get back into power, and I believe a Labour-led government is critical for NZ’s future.

GUYON Do you think Phil Goff is the right person to lead the Labour Party?

JUDITH I have always supported the leader of the Labour Party. Phil hasn’t always. Um, I support him as long as he’s leader, but I think he’s got to ask himself, and the caucus have got to ask him, whether he can win the next election, because that’s crucial for me and everyone.

GUYON Can you answer that? What do you think about that question that you’ve posed?

JUDITH That’s a question for caucus. The leader of the Labour Party in government is a matter for caucus.

GUYON What, if any, discussions did you have with Phil Goff about this matter of you returning?

JUDITH Phil said I was welcomed back. I have to confess, he sounded like he was chewing dead rats as he said it.

GUYON Did he? What did he say to you?

JUDITH That’s what he said. ‘Judith, I want to assure you that I acknowledge it’s your choice. You must make it. And I want to tell you if you choose to come back, you would be very welcome.’ He said that on Friday last week.

GUYON Well, thanks very much for coming on and sharing your decision with us.

JUDITH Pleasure.