Paul Holmes Interviews David Parker and John Banks
 
PAUL HOLMES
                        This past week we learnt there’s a further billion-dollar hole in the government’s finances, and both Prime Minister John Key and Finance Minister Bill English are talking a near-zero budget next month with no new spending. Labour’s David Parker and the ACT leader John Banks not surprisingly have quite different solutions, so we’re with them both this morning. A one-billion dollar hole. Mr Parker, you say you believe the government has failed. In your statement, you said, ‘a zero budget is what you get when you fail.’ That’s a bit unreasonable, isn’t it?
 
DAVID PARKER – Labour’s finance spokesperson
                                    No. No, look, in hard times governments have to be frugal, but they do have choices, and National’s made the wrong choices, and that’s why they keep failing to meet even their own predictions.
 
PAUL             What choices were wrong?
                       
DAVID           Well, take some spending choices that I would do differently. They’ve spent $9 million on consultants for adjustments for-
 
PAUL             $9 million? We’re talking a billion.
 
DAVID           They’ve spent $120 million on consultants and lawyers for the sale of SOEs. That doesn’t grow the economy. They’re spending $2 billion on a highway to Puhoi. That’s nice to have, but it shouldn’t be a priority at the moment. We would have different priorities.
 
PAUL             See, I was mentioning that to the panel. When I looked at all the businesses going where kids are trying to apply for jobs and get jobs, they’re all supermarkets. Well, that’s real productive for an economy, isn’t it? The government has failed. Balancing the books is one thing, Mr Banks, but actually turning the economy around is something else, isn’t it?
 
JOHN BANKS, ACT Leader
                        Well, there’s nothing wrong with being a supermarket checkout operator in Manurewa.
 
PAUL             I’m not knocking the people who work in those businesses, but as businesses-
 
JOHN             But let me tell you the problem. The problem is for the 19-year-old supermarket operator in Manurewa, he is subsidising the free student loan for the merchant banker New Zealand graduate working in London and earning £100,000 a year. That’s called middle class welfare. There’s far too much middle class welfare. We’ve got to cut our cloth. The government this week announced that they’re going to have a spending cap. Bill  English is making a very good fist of bringing this budget together. These are tough economic times and we need to have some tough decisions taken like less government expenditure, getting government out of our pockets and off our backs.
 
PAUL             Let’s stay on the deficit. Middle class welfare - what do you mean by that?
 
JOHN             Well, middle class welfare, I mean free interest loans for students.
 
PAUL             I get you on that. But cheap going to the doctor, cheap prescriptions, that kind of thing?
 
JOHN             Well, why should I go to the doctor and have a subsidised prescription and a subsidised visit? Why should I as a New Zealander-
 
PAUL             Because for damn years you’ve worked hard and paid your taxes.
 
JOHN             But we simply can’t afford it. Why don’t they say to someone like me at 65, instead of taking a national superannuation that I don’t take because at 65 you can get it, why don’t they say ‘we’ll give it to you at 70 and you can get a little bit more’? It’s crazy stuff.
 
DAVID           The deficit is bigger because they economy’s not growing because the government’s not taking-
 
PAUL             Well, also, David, it’s not growing because the lower overseas prices, you know, the markets have softened here, revenues are down-
 
DAVID           We’ve actually had record terms of trade for the last three years, and we’re not growing- Look, governments do have choices. We’ve said that New Zealand should be investing in research and development, in education, in science, in more savings so as to have more exports.
 
PAUL             I know you have said that, but that doesn’t help a billion-dollar deficit which is right down the road and around the corner.
 
DAVID           No, no, look, that deficit will be overcome within three years whether we’re there or they’re there. Last year it was $13 billion; this year it’ll be about $9 billion; the following year it’ll be about $5 billion and then it’ll be gone.
 
PAUL             But you reckon yourself that- Didn’t you say to my producer the other day that a monkey could get those books balanced by 2014?
 
DAVID           The government’s own projection-
 
PAUL             If you would have done that as well, then you’d have no extra spending either, would you?
 
DAVID           We would prioritise our spending. Look, we’re not saying spend more and borrow more. We’re saying the priorities are wrong. Selling our assets, selling land, that’s central to the government’s agenda We say we should be investing in science, research and developments, savings, more exports. That’s the way to grow.
 
PAUL             Mr Parker, I would ask you to sit there for a little while, because, Mr Banks, other matters have reared their head over the last couple of days, and David Shearer, the Labour leader, is demanding of the Prime Minister that he stand you down over the Kim Dotcom donation affair. Should he, or shouldn’t you stand yourself down?
 
JOHN             This is the problem - it’s a sideshow; it’s mostly a media beat-up, and much of it is humbug.
 
PAUL             No, dammit, it’s about the law, Mr Banks.
 
JOHN             Yes, well, have a look at the 2001 act and you’ll see what a professor of law said this morning in the Sunday Herald. Yesterday the media had me going to jail. Today they’re saying I’m likely to be in the clear. That is the problem. Last week I was the sideshow. Next week Mr Shearer will be the sideshow because Mr Shearer’s going to be rolled in the next couple of weeks. That’s the problem.
 
PAUL             Can I just have a look at some of what’s emerged? You were up at Kim Dotcom’s, and did you know he was giving you the money? Did you know he was writing out a cheque or getting his man to write a cheque?
 
JOHN             Look, we’re here to talk about investment, growth and jobs-
 
PAUL             Well, I’m sorry, Mr Banks, this has taken precedence.
 
JOHN             Let me answer your question. All this has been narrated mainly on the front page of the local newspaper here and across the media-
 
PAUL             Well, I’m giving you the chance to debate it with us here, so answer the question. Were you there when the cheques came out? Did you know he was giving you the money?
 
JOHN             I don’t-
 
PAUL             Did he mention $50,000?
 
JOHN             Why don’t you-?
 
PAUL             Were you there when they started writing a cheque?
 
JOHN             (LAUGHS)
 
PAUL             Did you ask for it to be two cheques because you could make it anonymous? And if you were there and you declared that donation anonymous, you’re dead meat, aren’t you, because that was illegal.
 
JOHN             I think you think I came up the river on a cabbage boat. I can tell you that when I signed my declaration for the mayoralty I signed it in good faith in the knowledge as a Justice of the Peace as true and correct. I have nothing to fear and nothing to hide and I welcome the inquiry and everything will come out in the wash, Mr Holmes. I’m more invested in the real issues of investment growth and jobs and providing working opportunities for 80,000 of our kids that are out of school and out of luck.
 
PAUL             But are you saying- Because it is illegal, you know, don’t you, that if you know where a donation came from, to claim it was anonymous. So is what Mr Dotcom is saying about- your eyes perked up, your eyes went big at the mention of 50 grand. And so the fella gets the chequebook out and you’re sitting there and he writes a cheque. I mean, are you saying that he’s lying? Because that’s what he’s saying.
 
JOHN             I don’t know why you’re going on about this. I have nothing to hide.
 
PAUL             Is he lying?
 
JOHN             It’s a media beat-up. Yesterday I was going to jail. Today I’m going to be cleared. I mean, that’s what the media get up to, and you’re beating it up again. Look, we’ve got an inquiry-
 
PAUL             Mr Banks.
 
JOHN             I’m very happy to have the inquiry. (CHUCKLES)
 
PAUL             Did you know Kim Dotcom had written you two cheques for 50 grand, and did you therefore put them in your return as two lots of 25, anonymous? Yes or no?
 
JOHN             I signed my return honestly. I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear and it will all come-
 
PAUL             Did you know Mr Dotcom was throwing 50 grand at you?
 
JOHN             -out in the wash. And I want to talk this morning about our competition with Australia for investment and jobs and getting the government off our backs and out of our pockets and providing an economic environment where we can create wealth for our country.
 
PAUL             Let me go to Mr Parker and see if he’s got an opinion on-
 
JOHN             Ask him about the leadership of the Labour Party being rolled this week. That’ll be the sideshow. (LAUGHS)
 
PAUL             (LAUGHS) I’m going to. On the Kim Dotcom, Shearer says stand down. What do you think?
 
DAVID           Yeah, he should stand down. Look, this is serious. The police should look at it. It’s another sideshow from what the government should be focusing on. I do agree with John Banks on that, but unfortunately for him, he’s centre stage now and he should be standing aside so that he’s not the sideshow and the government can get on with managing the economy.
 
PAUL             What about, though, I mean, you mention the leadership. His eminence Christopher Trotter saying he made the wrong decision when he backed Kim- Not Kim Dotcom, no, David Shearer. (LAUGHS) Is there real faith- Can you speak honestly? Is there faith in David Shearer’s leadership?
 
DAVID           Yes, there is. You know, David Shearer’s a courageous man. He’s a good leader. And I believe - and I actually think a lot of New Zealanders know that we’re lucky to have him in politics. There is no leadership coup. There has been no leadership coup rumours, other than in blogs, and it suits our political opponents to rark them up.
 
JOHN             But Holmesy-
 
PAUL             You must have heard the talk - there’s a feeling that the man’s got no mongrel.
 
DAVID           I disagree David Shearer comes from a background where he’s been dealing with mongrels all his life, and he puts them down when he has to. You know, you don’t have to be a pitbull terrier to be the prime minister. You do have to be strong and courageous.
 
PAUL             And you don’t have to wear the guns on the outside.
 
JOHN             What you didn’t say is that Mr Trotter, one of the great apologists for the left in this country, he said, quote, the David Shearer leadership is an - quote - unfortunate experiment. The sideshow won’t be me. The sideshow next week will be this joker and his mates rolling David Shearer.
 
PAUL             Now, look, I’ll give you a quick word on the economy. That one-billion dollar hole is most uncomfortable. What can we do about it?
 
JOHN             Start saving some money. Getting rid of middle class welfare. Look, Bill English is making a good fist of bringing the budget together at the crossroads. We’ve gotta take some tough decisions around spending. This outfit over here wants to spend more, want to borrow more, want to tax more and want to mortgage our grandchildren to the hock.
 
PAUL             He’s dead right. I mean, Interest-free student loans are a scandal.
 
DAVID           I don’t take fiscal advice from John Banks-
 
PAUL             You should because he gets money from- (LAUGHS)
 
DAVID           (LAUGHS) Well, he might get money from Kim Dotcom, but when he was mayor, he tripled council debt in his last three years, so I don’t take- We need to grow the economy. The government’s focussed on asset sales. That doesn’t grow the economy. Changing who owns what already exists does not grow the output of economy. We need to invest in research and development, science and education. We need to get people going. And deeper savings.
 
PAUL             Thank you. We have to leave it there. And I can’t believe you can’t remember whether you went in a helicopter or not.
 
DAVID           I don’t believe that either.
 
PAUL             That’s good. That’s my opinion.
 
JOHN             You’ve been in a helicopter with me. I taught you to fly it.
 
PAUL             Yes, you did.

ENDS