Q+A: Shane Taurima interviews Murray McCully
 
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Q+A
 
SHANE TAURIMA INTERVIEWS MURRAY MCCULLY
 
SHANE TAURIMA
Just before we talk about your speech, just very briefly, cos we’re talking about the Kim Dotcom saga here at the moment. CNN says we look like ‘hillbillies’ on the international scene, and I’m just wondering, what’s happening here, is it making your job harder?
 
MURRAY MCCULLY - Foreign Minister
I haven’t heard a single word about the issue since I got to the United States. That’s the honest answer.
 
SHANE          OK, well, let’s press on to your speech that you’ve just delivered to the UN and your tough words around the lack of action on Syria. Let’s take a look.
 
Clip from Murray McCully’s speech
‘If 25,000 deaths, countless thousands injured and many more displaced and homeless is not enough to get the Security Council to act, then what does it take?’
 
SHANE          What hope is there, Minister, the council will budge on Syria?
 
MURRAY      I’m not particularly optimistic, and I’ve been having that discussion with a number of my ministerial colleagues, and that’s why I decided I should raise the issue of Security Council reform, because I think that would be the sort of thing New Zealanders would expect. We pay our dues, we’ve been a member since the beginning, and when it really matters, the Council’s not able to deliver on one of the most serious matters that the world could confront.
 
SHANE          China and Russia are vetoing action on Syria. Now, you said in the speech that the five permanent members should restrict their vetoes to only issues that clearly and directly affect vital national interests and not use them in situations involving atrocities. How did that go down?
 
MURRAY      Well, funnily enough I got some sporadic applause spontaneously around the hall at that stage, which was unexpected, but it’s clear from the number of people who came to raise the matter with me subsequently that it’s something that tapped into a bit of a nerve here. I think there’s a real sense of frustration. And remember the deal was when the Security Council and the UN were put together in 1945 New Zealand actually opposed the veto being available. Those countries, the P5, said they needed it to protect their national interests, but it’s being used for completely different purposes. Really the point I wanted to make was that while arguing about surrendering the veto is pretty forlorn, that’s not gonna happen, at least trying to cut a deal with the P5 to try and make sure that it’s used for a much more restricted purpose, I think that is a reasonable and achievable request.
 
SHANE          Now, we’re after a seat on the Security Council in 2015/16, battling Spain and Turkey. What’s in it for us, and why would we want to join a club that you’ve just said is effectively broken?
 
MURRAY      Well, I think one of the things that we’d contribute to the Security Council is an ability to try and broker some solutions. We’ve got a good brand built up over many years as being honest brokers, constructive and thoughtful in the way in which we approach difficult issues. I think it’s a brand that puts us in good standing when contesting a Security Council seat against much bigger and more influential players. But, look, we pay our dues. We’ve been committed members of the UN for a long time, since its inception, and every 20 years or so we try and get ourselves elected to the Security Council, and when we do, we make a very good job of it. We’re proud of our track record there, and we stand on that track record this time as we put our name forward.
 
SHANE          So what’s the word you’ve had at the assembly regarding support for our bid?
 
MURRAY      Well, we’ve got a campaign that’s been underway for quite a long time. The many meetings that we did around the margins here were just another part of that campaign. The sentiment is very good. Our level of support is good. But of course we’ll come under a lot more pressure going into the final two years, particularly that last year, 2014, and we’re just trying to make sure that we leave ourselves in the best possible place. But, no, the feedback has been excellent. We’ve got some great friends internationally because of the good work we’ve done over the years, not just in our own region, but further afield, and those friends are coming out to work for us as well.
 
SHANE          And what’s the chance out of 10?
 
MURRAY      Oh, I wouldn’t want to put a number on it, I’d simply say that we’re right in this contest. I mean, there’s a conventional wisdom, I think, advanced by some that you’ve got to buy a Security Council seat with a big aid budget or a big programme of diplomatic visits. We’re not trying to do anything like that. This will be a test, I guess, of that argument. I think that we’re in very good shape, but we’re gonna have to work real hard because this is a big deal, and it’s not gonna happen without a lot of hard work.
 
SHANE          And very quickly, Minister, we know that Australia wants to get on next year. Is it bad timing for us with their bid the year before?
 
MURRAY      Oh, look, I don’t buy into that argument. New Zealand’s doing everything it can to back the Australian campaign at the moment. The vote’s on the 18th of November, and they’re working hard, but so are we on their behalf. I think that we want to see Australia elected, and then we’ll pick up our campaign when we know the outcome, and we just wish them the best. I think that whatever happens, New Zealand’s fortunes are not going to be affected.

ENDS