Q+A: Paul Holmes interviews John Tamihere.
 
Former Cabinet minister “looking seriously” at return to Parliament and “being lobbied quite a bit”, but too early in electoral cycle to declare.
 
But Tamihere lets slip “the only thing that would stop me making a return” would be family and voters.
 
Criticises his old party: “There’s no doubt, the [Labour] front bench is not firing across the whole line, whether it’s health, welfare or education.”
 
Factional fighting within Labour could be good for the party in the long run “because out of those trials and tribulations comes a strengthened group”.
 
Would only stand for Labour, but won’t be contesting a Maori seat – “been there done that”, politics in Maori seats is “extraordinarily grueling”.
 
Is targeting Waitakere: “I’m from the region, know it back to front… The Waitakere seat is not a marginal seat. It’s a safe seat for Labour. It should never have been lost in 2008 and should have been won back 2011.”
 
Asked about who might be good to replace Shearer as Labour leader: “Gosh, that’s a very good question… I can’t come back to you with an informed decision.”
 
“We are gouging our middle class, and that’s why people are going to Australia.”
 
“Crony capitalism” companies gouging New Zealand with state-created virtual monopolies.
 
“If you think that Fletcher’s haven’t set the supply side of construction, haven’t set the dollar values for subcontractors and for labourers in this country and continue to gouge it… you’ve got another thing coming.”
 
Wants to stop Australian banks as they “shovel billions” back to Australia.
 
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Q + A – October 7, 2012
 
JOHN TAMIHERE
Former Labour Cabinet Minister
 
Interviewed by PAUL HOLMES
 
PAUL                            You were saying just before we went on air – I think you feel it’s unfinished business.   
 
JOHN TAMIHERE      Well, you always do, but what I’d say is that it’s early in the electoral cycle to be absolutely definitive about a return.
 
PAUL                            Right, so you’re not going to tell me much at all this morning.
 
MR TAMIHERE           What I want to say in terms of this conversation – I think Russel Norman’s raising it – is that the market that we have in this New Zealand is a myth; that there's crony capitalism. It’s all monopolies and cartels, and so the promise of Rogernomics has gone, and so therefore we have to change the major macroeconomic settings.
 
PAUL                            Let us talk about that, though, when we get into a bit more of the interview. I mean, why would you want, though, to go back? I mean, do you want to go back?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, let me put it this way: I’m a practitioner on the street, and in terms of trying to change in terms of volumes into prisons and hospitals, right. To do that, there's a lot of things that can help you achieve that and there's a lot of things that can get in the way. Now, you’ve got to change some policies.
 
PAUL                            So are your saying--? I mean, I think you were saying to us the other day that you’d rather like to be in there doing things rather than being a paid political commentator on the outside discussing things.
 
MR TAMIHERE           A paid political commentator is quite handsome. There's no doubt about that. You don’t suffer the same difficulties. But you do have to make a decision sooner or later as to whether you’re going to jump in the ring or not.
 
PAUL                            So you are seriously considering going back, yeah?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Yeah.
 
PAUL                            We can say this morning that you are giving it serious consideration, the 2014 race?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, I’ve been lobbied quite a bit.
 
PAUL                            By whom?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, I don’t intend breaking confidences right now, because there's a nomination and a race to be won if you do go down that track. And so I’m looking seriously at it.
 
PAUL                            I think a lot of people might be looking at you, saying why would you want to go back in? Because last time, God, it ended in such grief for you.
 
MR TAMIHERE           Yeah, well, that’s what my wife said. (laughs) But, you know—
 
PAUL                            Well, she probably went through it.
 
MR TAMIHERE           Oh, the whole family did, and the only thing that would stop me making a return would be that conversation and getting across that line.
 
PAUL                            Why would it be different, though, this time?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, I’m a lot more wiser. I’ve been around a lot more and a lot more experienced, in the event that I did throw my hat in the ring. But I also think that— I know, for instance, that with, say, the growing age that we’re going to have major issues in pensions if we don’t do something. Same with education.
 
PAUL                            Well, we’re talking Waitakere, surely? You probably would be looking at Waitakere, would you?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, look, I’ve played league out there – New Lynn and Glenora. I mean, I’m from the region, know it back to front.
 
PAUL                            You wouldn’t be chasing a Maori seat?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, I’m over it.
 
PAUL                            (laughs) Explain.
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well... (laughs) I’ve been there and done that, and those sort of politics— The politics in the Maori seats are extraordinarily gruelling, and I think that it’s time for building bridges and to do the crossovers.
 
PAUL                            I suppose the other big question people will be asking you – and they are going to ask you next year at the selection process, if we get that far – is can you beat Paula Bennett?
 
MR TAMIHERE           The Waitakere seat is not a marginal seat. It’s a safe seat for Labour. It should never have been lost in 2008 and should have been won back 2011. Now, something needs to happen within the party to up that conversation.
 
PAUL                            So you would be talking Labour?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Labour is the only party that has provided worthwhile change to the country, from the ’35-’38 Labour government, even the ’57 government, which reset tax. And you look at Kirk – if we’d stayed the course on the superannuation programme, we’d be a generation ahead of Australia and so on.
 
PAUL                            Let me just ask you one more of these questions about the return. I mean, how do you cease to be yesterday’s man? I mean, is there a second chance?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, you’ve had a few!
 
(both laugh)
 
MR TAMIHERE           So, you know, work it out. Yeah.
 
PAUL                            Fair enough. How are the left doing at the moment, do you think? Because you’re obviously expressing some concerns about the policies we’ve been following more or less since, what, 1994.
 
MR TAMIHERE           Yeah. No, no, there's no doubt that the Rogernomic economic settings— The jury is in and the evidence is palpable – it’s wrong. It’s got to be changed. So people who are earning $60,000 to $80,000 watching this programme today – they’re finding it tough.  Can you imagine what it’s like on $50,000 or less? So we’re gouging out our middle class, and that’s why people are going to Australia.
 
PAUL                            So are you now talking--? Like, you want to see a major economic shift in direction. You want us to try different things. Some of those things might be things that were tried in the past under Muldoon and didn’t work, of course.
 
MR TAMIHERE           No, no, I’m not suggesting capitalism is wrong. I’m suggesting to you that the crony capitalism we have applied is absolutely out of whack and it’s provided— There's no competition.
 
PAUL                            What do you mean by crony capitalism?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, I’ll give you a couple of—
 
PAUL                            It’s a small country. Everyone’s going to know everyone else.
 
MR TAMIHERE           I’ll give you an example. If you think that Fletcher’s haven’t set the supply side of construction, haven’t set the dollar values for subcontractors and for labourers in this country and continue to gouge it, and then we make out that they’re great businessmen when you’ve given a state-granted monopoly, you’ve got another thing coming.
 
PAUL                            You’re talking about Christchurch?
 
MR TAMIHERE           I’m not just talking about Christchurch. I’m talking about the supply side in grocery. We’ve only got two in grocery. The telecommunications – we’ve only got two. The banks – we’ve got four, and they shovel billions of dollars across the ditch. Now, you’ve just got to stop it.
 
PAUL                            Let me ask you a couple of quickies. Does there need to be a reshuffle of the Labour Party front bench?
 
MR TAMIHERE           The Labour Party front bench has not fired as well as it could.
 
PAUL                            Has Labour reconnected with the people as Shearer wanted to?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Look, it’s in a major constitutional review and it’s in a major review of its whole processes.
 
PAUL                            Is that a “no” answer?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, it’s in rebuild mode, as National was in 2002 after that outrageous defeat then. Labour’s got to come through that.
 
PAUL                            Well, we’re up to 2012. We need to get rebuilt pretty quickly, don’t we?
 
MR TAMIHERE           I think it’s happening quite— Well, look, you mightn’t be aware of it, but out on the street, there's new conversations going. There's new energy being clicked into the party. Because after 19 years of Clark, power actually starts to implode towards the centre. So the party’s had to go out and regrow activism.
 
PAUL                            Well, another simple way of putting that might be to quote Deborah Coddington on ZB yesterday, who said, well, all the members of the Labour Party hate each other. So that’s the problem they’ve got, really, about rebuilding is that they’re at each other’s throats, they’re all still doing numbers on the leadership and so forth.
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, the problem you’ve got is the same as with National, if I could reflect on that, because I watched that very closely. After their loss in ’99 and 2002, you do have factions, but, you know, that’s a healthy contest, and you’ve got to see it healthy in the first instance, because out of those trials and tribulations comes a strengthened group.
 
PAUL                            Yeah, but we’re now 2012, as I say. I mean, do you think David Shearer’s got to really reshuffle that front bench? I mean, you can’t honestly look at that front bench and think they’re performing well as an Opposition.
 
MR TAMIHERE           That’s true, but he’s also got to look to 2014 for the list.
 
PAUL                            It’s critical, because this week – you take this week. Bad week for the government. Should have been. More Dotcom coming left, right and centre at the Prime Minister.
 
MR TAMIHERE           You’ve got me. There’s no doubt—
 
PAUL                            Wilkinson’s reversal on Mike Tyson.
 
MR TAMIHERE           Front bench is not firing.
 
PAUL                            No.
 
MR TAMIHERE           Across the whole line, whether it’s health, welfare or education, and those are the biggies. But there's a lot of other things going on, and I agree with that, but what you have to say is Shearer’s a decent bloke, got a strong social conscience and doesn’t have any fingerprints on either the Lange era or the Clark era.
 
PAUL                            Well, you’ve got a lot of fingerprints, of course, over quite a few groups. For example, you’d have to get past the gays, you’d have to get past the unionists, and you’d have to get past the women to win Waitakere nomination, wouldn’t you? Can you do that?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Well, you know, I don’t... The tussle and the contest, in the event that I did flag, I’d look forward to.
 
PAUL                            Who—? If you just took a, you know, just a little punt at the moment, just thinking around. We’re not on telly or anything like that, just pretend for a moment. If David—
 
MR TAMIHERE           I’ll just pretend you’re Ian Wishart.
 
(both laugh)
 
PAUL                            My tape recorder. The red light’s on. If David Shearer were not leader, who would be a good leader, do you think? Who do you think the party could go with at the moment, safely?
 
MR TAMIHERE           Gosh, that’s a very good question. It’s one that I haven’t given much thought to, because I did back Shearer, right. I can’t come back to you with an informed decision.
 
PAUL                            That’s fair enough. We’ll leave that there. No, there's plenty of time for you to think about this. I’m sure there will be. John Tamihere, thank you for your time.
 
ENDS