Paul Foster-Bell: Brian Tamaki’s Comments Prompted Me to Come Out

First-term National list MP Paul Foster-Bell says recent comments by Brian Tamaki about homosexuality causing the Kaikoura earthquakes were amongst several factors prompting him to ‘come out’ as a gay man. “I think in terms of the damage to young people, perhaps young people in provincial New Zealand who are questioning their sexuality, questioning their own self-worth, it’s actually throwing petrol on a fire when you send out a message that gay people are very similar to murderers, they’re sinners, and they’re creating natural disasters,” he told One News political reporter Andrea Vance. “You and I can dismiss that as intelligent adults as just being ludicrous, but for those kids, that’s actually a really hurtful thing at an already difficult time in their life. And we’re talking about young teenagers who have actually a four times higher risk of depression and of suicide. So I think we had a moral obligation to speak up as a society.”
Mr Foster-Bell says there have been times in his career he has had to be discreet about his sexuality, including when he worked abroad as a diplomat.
“My overseas postings were in the Middle East in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, where if you were an openly gay diplomat there, you’d risk perhaps being made persona non grata; that is, put on the next plane out of the country, booted out and lose your job. “But worst still, the person who you were with is a criminal. That person could be executed, have parts amputated. It’s horrific the treatment of gay people in some countries of the world. So that was a challenge, and that’s why for that part of my career I was discreet. That was a necessary level of discretion. “

END

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Q + A
Episode 39
PAUL FOSTER-BELL
Interviewed by ANDREA VANCE

GREG A week ago National MP Paul Foster-Bell approached 1 NEWS reporter Andrea Vance with a story he wanted to tell. The first-term MP was born and raised on a farm near Whangarei. He had a career as a diplomat, at one point based in Saudi Arabia and working across a number of Gulf States. He lives in Wellington Central. He's also gay, which is something he's never talked about publicly before. But last weekend he decided he had to, so Andrea sat down with him a few days ago and asked him why.

PAUL Well, look, there’s been a number of things over recent months, from events in the Middle East with gay people being thrown off buildings, through to even closer to home, gay people being criminalised, being imprisoned and whipped in some of the Pacific nations. But, actually, it was Brian Tamaki’s outburst a few weeks ago that really did make me furious, and it meant that it was time for me, really, to speak up.

ANDREA It was his comments about the earthquake, that’s what you’re talking about.

PAUL Absolutely.

ANDREA Why was that a catalyst for you to be more open, and what damage do you think that it did?

PAUL Well, look, I think in terms of the damage to young people, perhaps young people in provincial New Zealand who are questioning their sexuality, questioning their own self-worth, it’s actually throwing petrol on a fire when you send out a message that gay people are very similar to murderers, they’re sinners, and they’re creating natural disasters. You and I can dismiss that as intelligent adults as just being ludicrous, but for those kids, that’s actually a really hurtful thing at an already difficult time in their life. And we’re talking about young teenagers who have actually a four times higher risk of depression and of suicide. So I think we had a moral obligation to speak up as a society.

ANDREA Is that something that you identify with? Have you struggled previously with being open about your sexuality?

PAUL To some extent, I suppose. Growing up in provincial New Zealand back in the ‘70s and ‘80s, it is a conservative society. And I was really lucky to have, actually, very supportive, hard-working and loving parents. But I know, actually, most gay men, as they’re growing up, I certainly felt maybe a sense of disappointment from Dad. He always wanted that First XV rugby player, and I was happier with my nose in a book or perhaps helping Mum in the kitchen with some cooking. So I knew I wasn’t that person, and that sense of disappointment that kids are very sensitive to, it can be a little bit damaging.

ANDREA So your family are sitting at home watching this now. How do you think that they will feel about you talking about this so publicly and so openly?

PAUL Well, look, I hope— Actually, I know that they’ll be really proud of what I’m doing, because the platform that I’ve been given here in Parliament allows me to do some good in society. I don’t think people should come here to be somebody, to be an MP; they need to come here to do something.

ANDREA You’ve been in politics for more than three years now, so did you feel like this was the time? The time was right now? Did you feel like you couldn’t be open before now? Did you have any pressure put on you by your colleagues?

PAUL Look, not at all, actually. I have been in Parliament for a few years now, and I thought this is really time not so much to come out, it’s time to speak out. So I’m active in the community in Wellington. I’m a vice patron of Rainbow Wellington, for instance. I work on a cross-party Rainbow committee across party lines, and, actually, it was my colleagues who put me there, so this won’t come as a surprise to my colleagues. But it was the events of this year — you know, a homophobic administration in the US being elected, the rise of the right in Europe, but more recently that outrageous tirade from Mr Tamaki that really made it clear to me that I had a moral obligation to speak out and to use the platform I have, particularly as a government MP from within inside the Caucus team. The Opposition have a number of gay MPs, but, actually, it’s important that within the team that’s running the country we also have that community represented, and I want to take a leadership role there.

ANDREA You obviously have thought about this and you feel quite strongly about it, but can I be a little bit cynical here and suggest that there is something in the timing here. You are facing a particularly tough selection battle. Has this got anything to do with this openness?

PAUL It goes back over a year, actually, and it’s been something I’ve been working on more behind the scenes, and when you think you’re entitled to a private life and it’s no one else’s business, that’s fine, but when you see these problems out there and they’re exacerbated by people like Mr Tamaki, we have to stand up. We have an absolute compelling moral obligation, particularly as a gay MP, to do what we can to help those kids, those vulnerable kids, who are at risk.

ANDREA So is this a bit of an open secret? Do you think your Caucus colleagues will be surprised? And did you actually ask for permission from the party to do this interview?

PAUL Look, we’re free individuals in National, and I don’t think permission is required, but I certainly spoke to other people about it before I did it and was really affirmed in doing that. I don’t think it will be a surprise. It’s not a secret at all. As I say, I’ve been active both on the political side around Parliament. This is about getting outside of that very cosy Wellington bubble, if you like, where we are liberal, we’re accepting here, and throughout the country in provincial New Zealand, there is a little less acceptance, I think, for gay people. So I want to get that message out there and use the platform I have in Parliament, just the same way Mr Tamaki’s using his tax-exempt platform as a self-appointed bishop to send the opposite message.

ANDREA Can you tell me a little bit about the work that you’ve done? You’ve been putting some pressure on ERO to do some work in that area to help young people who are struggling with their sexuality.

PAUL That’s absolutely right. That’s a good example. So the Educational Review Office, it goes into schools, and they check up on how safe a building is or is the educational attainment up to what we’d expect. But we’re putting pressure on them to add to their list of priorities on the things they check up on how homophobic bullying’s being dealt with, the harassment of gay students, because we know that in our schools that kind of behaviour’s leading to teenage depression and suicide. And we’re actually denying our country so much potential. You think about Alan Turing, who created our modern world of computers, took his own life due to homophobia in society. I think if you look at our schools in New Zealand, it’s a similar thing. We’re losing so much potential. Young people who could contribute a lot to our country, who are failing at school, not doing well at uni and, even worse, perhaps not functioning well as members of our society because of that.

ANDREA You mentioned the difficulties growing up, but has it been difficult being gay in the foreign service, your previous career, and then moving into politics?

PAUL In some ways it has, actually. It has been challenging. So in foreign affairs, when you’re basically a public servant back in Wellington, it’s a very open and modern progressive environment you’re in. But my overseas postings were in the Middle East in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, where if you were an openly gay diplomat there, you’d risk perhaps being made persona non grata; that is, put on the next plane out of the country, booted out and lose your job. But worst still, the person who you were with is a criminal. That person could be executed, have parts amputated. It’s horrific the treatment of gay people in some countries of the world. So that was a challenge, and that’s why for that part of my career I was discreet. That was a necessary level of discretion. But it is worrying when you think if there was a possibility you might fall in love with somebody and that could lead to that person being killed or imprisoned, it’s a huge worry. And in some ways it made me more passionate in other areas of my job, like actually delivering strong messages on human rights to those regimes.

ANDREA So did you find yourself in a position where you perhaps met someone that you did care for and you felt like you couldn’t take that relationship further because of what might happen to them? Did you hold back?

PAUL Yes.

ANDREA That happened? Can you talk about that a little bit?

PAUL Look, I don’t want to go into the details of that, Andrea, partially because people are still unsafe. People who are back in those countries are still unsafe.

ANDREA That must have been heart-breaking, though.

PAUL It really is.

ANDREA So in politics, has a similar thing happened? Have you been really careful about your partners or the people that you’ve, perhaps, dated because you’re worried about a backlash because you’re in the public eye?

PAUL Not really. I mean, I’ve been dating for about nine months a lovely, amazing guy who is completely unpolitical and is really, really private and doesn’t want to be publicised in any way. So I’ve been able to have a much closer to a normal relationship in this role. And that’s the beauty of New Zealand. But if we’re not careful, if we don’t preserve what’s great about our country — that people are treated according to their merits, not according to their sexuality — then we risk sliding back to where the United States is going at the moment.

ANDREA Well, obviously, not wanting to out anyone or embarrass anyone or force anyone out of the closet, but is there a danger that the public perception is that there are no gay MPs in National? Isn’t that an image problem that you have?

PAUL Look, I don’t think so, partially because I’m doing this now and saying, yes, there is; I’m here. But we’ve had a lot of friends in our lives. We have MPs who now are openly gay who were National MPs historically. And I think of, for instance, Professor Marilyn Waring back in the early 1980s, who was quite well known for her stoush with Prime Minister Rob Muldoon back in those days. So National hasn’t been a complete desert for gay people, but I think it’s important that we have a strong voice here, and that’s what I’m hoping to be.

ANDREA Do you think that people in the gay community don’t want to stand for National? They feel like they’ll be the only gay in the village, if you like? There’s not a space for them or room for them?

PAUL Look, I think the change we’ve seen particularly in the recent decade or so has been that barrier’s broken down, and certainly there are gay people coming forward as candidates. I know I’ve had a gay electorate chair, our Young Nats chair, presidents of the Young Nats, at least three that I can think of have been openly gay. So, look, I think that may have been the case once, but it isn’t now, and it certainly won’t be in the future.