Q+A: Jessica Mutch interviews Winston Peters
Q+A’s deputy political editor Jessica Mutch
interviews NZ First leader Winston
Peters
NZ First leader Winston Peters says
Parliament’s new Speaker, David Carter, has not risen
above his National Party colours to be Parliament’s
independent voice overseeing procedure in the
House.
Peters told TVNZ’s Q+A programme on Sunday
that as Speaker, “You’re Parliament’s man or woman,
you’ve got to be independent, you’ve got to be
professional, and above all, you’ve got to be
fair.
“He (Carter) hasn’t got past his
political colours. He hasn’t dropped the National Party
background, and he’s got to do that to be successful.
That’s what it actually means in there. If you talk
about the romance and majesty of the job, it’s to be
Parliament’s person above all else, fearing no party or
baggage or obligation. He’s got a long way to go to get
there.”
Since Mr Carter took up the Speaker role
two months ago, he has been heavily criticised by opposition
parties for the decisions he has made on Points of Order in
the House. Last Wednesday, Labour MPs Trevor Mallard and
Chris Hipkins were asked to leave the House by the Speaker
for their behaviour.
He did concede that being a
“referee or an umpire’s never
easy”.
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Q
+ A
JESSICA MUTCH INTERVIEWS WINSTON
PETERS
WINSTON PETERS –
Leader, New Zealand First
Look, being a referee
or an umpire’s never easy, and you’ve got to have the
knack. And some people have got it, some don’t, and some
can by a lot of hard work and a bit of humility learn it.
And he’s got a long, long way to
go.
JESSICA Out of ten, what
score would you give him?
WINSTON
Well, he’s about three and a half at the moment,
and I would think that even he would regard that as a pretty
good score, but he’s got a long way to go. And if he
doesn’t work out, I think we’ll have to look seriously
at an independent or some other MP doing the job, because
this sort of thing cannot go on. And there’s a lot of
justification for the angst and upset of a number of members
of Parliament. It’s not political. It’s just not
right to have an unfair environment, either unknowingly or
consciously.
JESSICA You talked about
having someone independent. Do you think we’ve got to
that point now?
WINSTON I
think we were at the point a long, long time ago, but, of
course, all the parties use it as a promotion link or as an
equivalent to a Cabinet post, and it comes with a knighthood
now, as you know. And so this is a huge inducement for
people to do what they would ordinarily not
do.
JESSICA Because
we’ve seen in the House this week – we’ve seen almost
a bit of a tag team with Trevor Mallard, Chris Hipkins,
Russel Norman and yourself. Is this a
game?
WINSTON No, it’s
not a game. The fact is that you’re there to ask
questions that the public wants the answers to, and it’s
in the ambit of responsibility of these ministers and their
capacity and their knowledge to answer them properly. And
frankly, I’ve seen some ministers in the past you could
never nail because they got up and briefly told the truth.
And it’s still the smartest
policy.
JESSICA So do
you think this is a principle of Parliament that basically
we have to have a Speaker who works to make the whole place
work?
WINSTON Well, the
most unusual people have been good Speakers. The best I
ever saw was a guy called Burke – Kerry Burke. People
are the—
JESSICA Why was he
good?
WINSTON Well, we
never thought he would be, and within a week, it was obvious
he was going to be because you could tell from his demeanour
that you had gone too far and that you weren’t being
fair. He never kicked anyone out, and he got amazing
cooperation out of the most unlikely people. So I think he
was very, very good, and we did not think at the start he
would be. Now, he was across the divide. He was a
different party’s Speaker, so it’s not so much the
party, it’s whether the person understands – you’re
Parliament’s man or woman, you’ve got to be independent,
you’ve got to be professional, and above all, you’ve got
to be fair.
JESSICA In terms of
fairness, do you think that David Carter is still very much
leaning in favour of National?
WINSTON
He hasn’t got past his political
colours. He hasn’t dropped the National Party
background, and he’s got to do that to be successful.
That’s what it actually means in there. If you talk
about the romance and majesty of the job, it’s to be
Parliament’s person above all else, fearing no party or
baggage or obligation. He’s got a long way to go to get
there.
JESSICA Because
some people would say you’ve been kicked out of
Parliament, according to the Parliamentary Library, 38
times. Are you the best judge of what makes a good
Speaker?
WINSTON Yeah, I
am.
JESSICA Why is
that?
WINSTON Because
I’ve been treated more unfairly than
most.
JESSICA So do you
think—?
WINSTON I
didn’t come here to make friends, and I didn’t come here
to be put down or shut down. And if I was in a court of
law, I’d get the answer, and I’m entitled to the answer
here too.
JESSICA Do you respect the
job that he’s doing?
WINSTON
To be fair—
JESSICA
Because that’s a
point—
WINSTON he
didn’t want the job.
JESSICA
No.
WINSTON But
the National Party wanted an extra Cabinet post member to be
made available. That’s why Williamson outside of Cabinet
didn’t get the job.
JESSICA And he’s only
been in the job for two months, so don’t you need to give
him a bit of leeway?
WINSTON
Well, he’s been in Parliament long enough,
hasn’t he?
JESSICA Yeah, but doing
that—
WINSTON He’s been
here since 1994. That is almost 20 years. If you
haven’t learnt something in 20 years, maybe you should
have gone.
JESSICA Do
you think, though, that he does need to be given a little
bit of leeway – give him a break, so to
speak?
WINSTON Yeah, I
think that’s fair.
JESSICA
Are you doing that,
though?
WINSTON Well,
he’s had more than enough breaks so
far.
JESSICA Because it seems
like you’re giving him a pretty hard time. And watching
from the debating chamber, it looks like you’re rarking
him up a bit.
WINSTON Well,
there’s no use saying, ‘Look, we’ll let the speaker do
what he likes and try and learn,’ whilst you lose the game
every day trying to get at the truth. Because this is a game
or business that’s a raging battle for political plow.
And if you don’t understand that, then you don’t
understand Parliament. And people are expecting you to put
your best foot— and give your best foot forward and give
it your best shot. And you cannot have something that is
hindering you from doing that.
JESSICA You sued the
Speaker a number of years ago for defamation. Some people
would say this is personal for you.
WINSTON No, it’s not
because of that. You know, you’ve got to have a Speaker
that works, because Parliament has got to work in the end
run. And for Parliament to work, we’ve all got to make
compromises, but you shouldn’t have to make too big a
compromise.
JESSICA
Does that personal clash, though, make it more
difficult for you?
WINSTON
It’s not a personal matter between him and me at
all, but, you know, he came to me before he got the job and
said, ‘We need to talk.’ And my answer was, ‘Well,
look, if nobody bothered to consult us about you being
chosen in the first place, what would our conversation be
about?’
JESSICA So
he can stay in the job, in your
opinion?
WINSTON Well, he
can stay in the job whilst he shows that he’s up to doing
the job.
JESSICA And is
he?
WINSTON And that should
be the condition anyone stays in their
job.
JESSICA Is he up to
it?
WINSTON Well, as you
say, it’s only two months. He’s got a long way to
go. We do hope that he does get up to it,
yes.
ENDS