Labour Leaders Want the Faithful to Return
Labour Leaders Want the Faithful to Return
Labour leadership contenders Shane Jones, David Cunliffe, and Grant Robertson say the party needs to reach out and bring back people who voted for them in the past.
Speaking on TV3’s “The Nation” Mr Jones said Labour needed to reconnect with the people who felt they have been alienated by Labour.
He said the party had the right policies but needed to market itself better, and believed he was the person to do that.
“We've got some incredibly clever and intellectual people in our party, “he said.
“But since Helen's gone we've never had the right messenger to connect with the people who have switched off politics and really are so disinterested in our brand.
“We've got to bring them back to mother ship Labour.
“And of the three of us I am the best,” he said.
Mr Cunliffe said he didn’t believe Labour’s marketing to voters was where they had gone.
“I think getting the marketing front end right is essential, but you’ve got to have the right product,” he said.
“We've got to stand up for the rights of working people, and we've got to deliver real change for all New Zealanders.”
Mr Robertson said the party needed to have good policies and be seen to be able to empathise with everyday New Zealanders.
“It is about connecting that up that up with a believable vision to say to New Zealanders you'll be better off under Labour and that if we have a chance to put in place that vision, your family's got opportunity,” he said.
“It is always going to be a mix of how we sell the message, and what the message is.”
“But it's about making it credible and believable, and speaking to New Zealanders about their everyday lives. If we can do that, and I think I can do that, we'll win.”
Labour Leader Contenders Look to Past Prime Ministers for Inspiration
Labour leadership hopefuls Grant Robertson and Shane Jones say they would like to follow in the footsteps of former Prime Minister Norman Kirk.
Mr Robertson said Mr Kirk had big plans but passed away too soon before he could see his vision come to fruition.
“Norman Kirk is the person that I look to,
“I think he was a man who had a huge vision for New Zealand but a practical touch to connect that vision to what New Zealanders were going through every day.
“He stood up on the world stage, he made New Zealanders proud and I often think about what would have happened if he'd lived a bit longer.
“One thing I know for sure is that we would have had a superannuation scheme that could be investing in New Zealand companies right now with billions of dollars to create jobs for New Zealanders,” said Mr Robertson
Mr Jones said he was at Waitangi in 1974 when Mr Kirk took held the hand of a young Maori child and walked with him across the marae.
“I was there when Norman Kirk took the hand of that little mokopuna Maori at Waitangi, and that really is one of the enduring images I have of our party.
“He'd be one of my major heroes,” said Mr Jones.
He said he believed Mr Kirk’s practical leadership style was what the party needed rather than Prime Minister Helen Clark’s style of social provision.
“He was a practical guy,”
“Now the thing about Helen, she was into social provision and anti-discrimination, Labour can no longer have that as its dominating brand,” said Mr Jones.
Mr Cunliffe pointed to first Labour Prime Minister Michael Joseph Savage as his role model.
“The reason for that is that we're at a point in history like the end of the Great Depression and we need a new programme, a new beginning, and this is the time for some real change.
“And just like Michael Joseph Savage we need to show a real love and compassion and work alongside all Kiwis from whatever walk of life.
“That’s what I want to do too,” he said.
Mr Cunliffe said Labour needed to get back to the basics that Mr Savage preached, to provide the needs for the people who need them the most.
“Get down, be very real about people's needs for a decent roof over their head, a good job, food on the table, a school they can depend on, free health care when they need it. That’s what Labour's basics are,” he said.
LABOUR LEADERSHIP DEBATE
Chaired by SEAN PLUNKET
Sean The first debate starts right here, right now. Welcome to David Cunliffe, Grant Robertson and Shane Jones from various locations in Wellington. Gents good to see you. Let's get straight into it, I'll put this question to Grant Robertson first. Why are you standing to be Leader of the Labour Party?
Grant Robertson – Labour MP
Well I think I can unify our party. I think I can lead us to victory in 2014. I represent a new generation of leadership, and I think if we can connect Labour values and policies together with New Zealanders' everyday lives, and they can answer the question yes I'm gonna be better off under a Labour government, we'll win, and I think I can do that.
Sean Alright Shane Jones, why are you standing?
Shane Jones – Labour MP
I'm a clear thinker and a direct talker. You know there's 3.2 million Kiwis with a right to vote. At the last election the party I'm proud to be a part of could only muster 18% of the Kiwis with a right to vote in New Zealand to support us. Go beyond the beltway, go out into the regions and really to the garden variety Kiwi, and I reflect much of what they feel anxious about.
Sean And David Cunliffe, why are you standing?
David Cunliffe – Labour MP
Because under my leadership I believe Labour's ready to win. The job here is to take on the National Party and deliver to New Zealanders the future that they’ve been hoping for, and the feedback I'm getting is that people see and I believe that I'm best placed to undertake that role for Labour.
Sean Okay, David Cunliffe, what have you got that David Shearer didn’t have?
David Well that’s really for others to judge, but my style is to lead from the front, to gather the troops alongside, and to try to set the agenda and take the fight to the government. I'm very proud of what Labour stand for. We have a rich history of changing New Zealand for the better, and I really want us to be clear about our values, our vision and our policies and take that to New Zealand on the front foot.
Sean Grant Robertson you were David Shearer's Deputy. Are you in some way responsible for his failure as a leader?
Grant I think the whole caucus has to take responsibility for where we are and also has to take responsibility for getting us to victory in 2014. I know that as a leader I can unify our caucus together. I think I've got a good track record for working across the caucus and across the party.
Sean How come you could unify, or help unify that caucus behind David Shearer as his Deputy?
Grant Oh I think if you talk to the caucus you'll find that I worked well with them right through this term that I've been the Deputy Leader, and I think if we can get the party and the caucus and our wider movement together, we'll be pretty unstoppable in 2014.
Sean Alright Shane Jones, were you sad to see David Shearer go? And why would you be a better leader than he?
Shane Well if there's anyone had a gripe against David Shearer it was me, in terms of his decision to go ahead with the Auditor General's Report, but I stuck back with David Shearer. I'm old fashioned mate, I was supportive of Goff, I was absolutely loyal to David Shearer, and I thought that when he went he should go with dignity. Isn't it amazing, not a single person is interested in talking to him etc. I'm a very good communicator and I've got a blend of ability, personality etcetera, that I think's gonna enable Labour to recolonize the area that we lost.
Sean Do you think Grant Robertson stood by his leader?
Shane I know of nothing that Grant openly did to undermine David Shearer. If that happened I didn’t see it.
Sean You said opening did.
Shane Well Grant was the Deputy and Grant is an absolute expert on the machinery of the Labour Party and the Civil Service and the processes of parliament etcetera. I really had no idea if there was any erosion of David associated with Grant.
Sean Do you want to talk to that Grant Robertson?
Grant Well no look there wasn't, and I think if you ask David Shearer he'll tell you that I was loyal to him. As a party we've gotta come together now and focus on the one person who is our opponent, and that is John Key and we have to take the fight to John Key and stand up for those values. We all have a responsibility to do that, and when I'm Leader I'll be leading that fight.
Sean You are all in the Herald this weekend being quoted on what you would do on taking office as Labour Leader, and I'll go to you first David Cunliffe. You said you would assemble the best lineup you could to win in 2014. Does that mean some bloodletting in the Labour Party caucus?
David No it doesn’t. I've been very encouraged by conversations with colleagues. There've been lots of those over the last week. What I'm committed to is a unified caucus and unity between the caucus and the party. Now I believe the way to get the best out of any team is to ensure that people are able to give their best, do as far as possible what they're passionate about. My job as Leader is to help get the right pegs in the right holes, so that the energy of the whole team is released, and that’s what I'm committed to.
Sean Okay but the whole team in the caucus is not behind you.
David Look I think the great thing about this race and why it's invigorating and supporters around the country, and why the three of us feel so good about it, is because we know that when the whole party chooses who they want to be the leader, the rest of us are all gonna get behind us. The entire Labour movement is gonna get behind it. The one person who is really sweating at the moment is John Key, because he knows that this new beginning is the beginning of his end.
Sean Alright, would you be happy to have either of the other two gentlemen here, David Cunliffe, as your deputy?
David Yes, look the deputy is for the caucus to decide, and I'm being very very clear about respecting that constitutional right. So I'm not going to be expressing any preferences around deputy. What I would say to both my colleagues is I highly value them, and they would both expect to play a role in the senior team that I have.
Sean So the first thing you'd would be unify caucus, but you're saying you can do that without demoting anyone, or having a major shakeup.
David I'm not saying that nobody's positions would change. I'm saying that our objective is to get the very best out of every member of the team, to treat everybody with dignity and respect, and to pull together to take on the National government. And the reason that we're doing that is because it's not about us, it's about the people out there in New Zealand who are doing it tough. We're here for them, we have a duty to perform.
Sean Shane Jones you said the first thing you would do is you would spend some more money on the Leader's office and get some better people in there. That’s a little inward looking isn't it?
Shane Absolutely not. No leader can function unless they're confident that the people supporting them on a day to day basis, dealing with the media, dealing with all the issues that confront a leader in parliament, is super fit. I also said that we've got to ensure that all caucus members feel that they're valued. I've always had a sense that the way in which we've operated is too many valuable and talented people in our caucus who can't quite see where they fit in. So there would be inevitable changes on our front bench, but the reality is that the front bench can't do the job unless everyone who belongs to the regions, the cities and the suburbs, feel that it's worthwhile being in our caucus and fighting the fight. And I don’t fully agree with my two colleagues. Sure John Key is the enemy, but the greater enemy confronting Labour is indifference to our message, apathy amongst Maori, Pacifika, ethnic votes and the fact. Get this right. Only 18% of New Zealanders with a right to vote, voted for us last time. So there's 82% adults in New Zealand with a right to vote. We've gotta go and harvest them.
David Can I just come in there Sean and just say that I strongly agree with my colleague Shane. There were 815,000 enrolled non-voters last time, and it would be a key priority for a Labour Party that I led to reach out to them, give them a really strong reason to get out there.
Sean Thank you David. Shane Jones I want to go back to you. Would a reshuffled Labour caucus under Shanes Jones be one that was more saleable to the voters of New Zealand?
Shane Look I know it's been said of me somewhat humorously about where I would go, but our votes lie seriously in what I call Middle Earth. And I just think that the Labour Party has got fine traditions that have been eclipsed in recent times by a whole lot of internal skirmishes and other issues. Unless we get back to what the issues are that Middle Earth New Zealanders deal with day to day, I'm beggared if I can see how we can improve both our brand and build our boats to run the country.
Sean Grant Robertson, you said the first thing you'd do is court the country, which is what David Shearer did, and look where that got him.
Grant Oh look I think it's incredibly important that we get out there with our message to New Zealanders, that they will be better off under a Labour government. They’ve gotta see the connections between what we promise as policy and what our vision and values are. But to come back to what Shane said. There's always two sides to the coin. We can tell New Zealanders why they should vote out an out of touch arrogant John Key, but we've also gotta tell them why they should vote in a Labour government that cares about them, and the fact that they want jobs for their family, that they want warm dry homes, they want opportunity for their kids. We have to do both sides of the coin if we're going to win election next year.
Sean Alright, Shane Jones I now want to ask you, I'll ask you first, is Labour's problem its message or its marketing?
Shane There's two dimensions to that. Labour must be utterly outward focused. Victory for us lies amongst the 82% of New Zealanders with a right to vote, a massive garden, heaps of potential. Then also, Labour needs not only a message. We've got policy from Africa. We've got some incredibly clever and intellectual people in our party, but since Helen's gone we've never had the right messenger to connect with the people who have switched off politics, and really are so disinterested in our brand, we've gotta bring them back to mother ship Labour. And of the three of us I am the best.
Sean Thank you. David Cunliffe, would you agree with Shane Jones, this is a job of marketing, not of a massive philosophical change in the party. It's about conveying the party's message?
David Not entirely, I think getting the marketing front end right is essential, but you’ve gotta have the right product. Look we've had the global financial crisis, I think we need to be clear that we don’t believe that free markets always deliver the right result. We've gotta stand up for the rights of working people, and we've gotta deliver real change for all New Zealanders. Let's be clear about that. If we're clear about the programme I think some of the sound bites are gonna take care of themselves.
Sean Grant Robertson is the product okay, but presentation off?
Grant We've got some terrific policies and I tend to agree with the other two that that’s not where the major issue lies. What it is, is about connecting that up that up with a believable vision to say to New Zealanders you'll be better off under Labour, and that if we have a chance to put in place that vision, your family's got opportunity. It is always going to be a mix of how we sell the message, and what the message is. But it's about making it credible and believable, and speaking to New Zealanders about their everyday lives. If we can do that, and I think I can do that, we'll win.
Sean Alright, do you think someone who lives David Cunliffe in Herne Bay in a two to two and half million dollar mansion can talk to everyday New Zealanders credibly?
David I think if that person came from a family that knew what it was like to do it tough, not as tough as some people today are doing it, but who worked hard and did well, I don’t see any reason why not, provided they never forget where they came from and they're committed to making sure that the same ladder is there for everybody else to climb up. That’s what I believe that we have an obligation…
Sean So why don’t you live in New Lynn?
David Well I used to live in Glen Eden which isn't far away, but for family reasons we moved in closer to where my wife was working as we were approaching the time that we had young children. That was a family decision that I've been very open with about my electorate and I've won four straight elections since.
Sean Alright Shane Jones, do you think David Cunliffe lives too well to be a good Labour salesman?
Shane Oh look mate, if it's good enough for John Key to live in Parnell Dave can live in Ponsonby, Herne Bay, St Mary's Bay, wherever he likes. We're really here as faithful members of the Labour Party, and it's up to the members to determine whether we show the right level of ability to connect with the lost tribe of Labour, and also whether or not we've got the personality to move people from one side of the aisle to the other, and I can assure you I have.
Sean Shane Jones thank you. Gentlemen we'll take a break. We will continue after this.
Sean You're back with The Nation and the three contenders for the Labour leadership, David Cunliffe, Grant Robertson, and Shane Jones. Grand Robertson I want to go to you now. You are the youngest of the contenders, but looking at your CV…
Grant And the best looking Sean.
Sean That’s a matter of opinion. Looking at your CV you are very much an insider. There hasn’t been a lot of life experience in what some might call the 'real world'. How then do you expect to connect with middle New Zealand?
Grant Well no I reject that Sean, I mean I grew up down in Dunedin which is a city that’s been abandoned by this government. Highest unemployment in 20 years down there. And I've been through my series of challenges in my life as well. What I think people in middle New Zealand and right across New Zealand want is someone who's actually gonna talk about the issues that matter to their family, and that is are there jobs for their kids out there? What are the schools like? That’s what people judge their politicians on, the ability to deliver some hope and some opportunity for New Zealand. And that’s what I'll be judged on. As a politician I move all around New Zealand, I talk to all kinds of different people, and if we're listening to New Zealanders' concerns and delivering on those, it doesn’t matter what electorate I represent.
Sean Alright can I ask you – what would you consider your greatest political victory?
Grant For me?
Grant Oh look I mean I'm very proud of the fact that we put in place the interest free student loan scheme when I was working in Helen Clark's office. I think that delivered to New Zealanders more educational opportunity. In this term of Opposition I drafted up the bill that’s getting New Zealand 11 public holidays every year. But when you get into government is when you can make the real differences, and making sure that New Zealanders have jobs.
Sean But you haven't as a politician been in government have you?
Grant As a politician I haven't no, but I've got the experience Sean of working with Helen Clark, to help build that government that I think we're all in the Labour Party very proud of.
Sean So working for Helen Clark is in fact what you would consider the high water mark of your political career?
Grant Oh actually the high water mark of my political career Sean is every single day, when I help someone in my electorate office to get a job or to get into a house, or to be able to get their kids' school operating the way they want it. At the moment when you're an Opposition MP you're down there on the ground helping people. That’s the high water mark. When we get into government we get to do that for everybody and that’s what I want to do.
Sean Thank you. Shane Jones, I want to talk to you about judgement. The judgement on how to use your ministerial credit card, and also the bill lieu affair, which despite the Auditor General's inquiry still remains somewhat mysterious. Would you accept that in the past your judgement has been sometimes lacking?
Shane Look the greatest thing that I've achieved to date in my political career is surviving the boxing ring of locks. Let's deal first with the issue that the media re not ever going to leave alone, the lapse of judgement in relation to my credit card. What's most important I think in the minds of Kiwis, yeah sure they get hoha with that, but whether or not can you stand up and take it on the chin, and you of all people Sean saw that. Initially there is a few stumbles, so yeah I've learned in the way that most Kiwis learn.
Sean Cos it looked like you got conned and at the end of the day we were left with two contradictory statements, one from an official who said he didn’t say something to you, and you saying he did.
Shane Well I'm not entirely sure mate what the official said, but I had the discretion to make that decision. I recorded what that official said and I've given that as sworn evidence. I however had chosen not to pursue that official for what I believe was his lying, but the bottom line is that it's been through the Auditor General, the Auditor General said I could improve on process, but the Auditor General found nothing that remotely approaches what that …..official said.
Sean Mr Jones, one of your competitors here, David Cunliffe advised you against the course of action which you took.
Shane Oh really? Well that’s news to me. That's news to me, it was David first who let this rooster stay in Aotearoa, and if David is now saying he advised me…
David No I was about to interject and to correct you Sean. I did not advise Shane at all, because I did not know that the case was on his desk. I made a different decision which was to continue an investigation into the gentleman concerned. I did not believe when the case was referred to me that there was enough evidence to meet an evidential threshold, but he was certainly under further investigation. The failure here in my view was a process failure between two different government departments where Internal Affairs did not provide to my colleague Mr Jones the information which resided in the Immigration Service. That put him at a disadvantage and I think that there has been a lot of reflection by the Civil Service on how that works.
Sean So you back him on that?
David In fact I'm standing up for the fact that you weren't properly briefed my friend.
Sean Okay we've got agreement there. Let's talk about the one gentleman you’ve all brought up tonight, John Key. I want to know David Cunliffe what you think John Key's Achilles Heel is. What's his weak point?
David You know I've known John Key since he was a bank bench MP in Helensville and we used to the West Auckland Rotary Clubs together, so that’s kinda useful. He's a lot funnier than I am, I'll be first to say that, but I think I can match him in terms of any policy debate, and I'm keen to take him on. The thing that I really am passionate about is giving New Zealanders a fair chance, and I just watch which National government for which he is responsible trampling over civil liberties, eroding personal privacy and freedoms, widening the gaps, having an economy that’s at best stuck in first gear. I just want so much better for our people.
Sean Yet still his popularity remains amazingly high David Cunliffe. Still he's a very popular Prime Minister despite all that.
David He has the best spin machine wince Adam was a boy, and New Zealanders are gonna get sick of spin, they want some more substance, and they're gonna get it from a Labour Party that stands for real change. We are clear that they need the government on their side working with them not doing stuff to them.
Sean Grant Robertson, 54% of New Zealanders don’t believe John Key. That’s what the survey said the other day.
Grant To me his Achilles Heel is that New Zealanders are losing faith in him, that he's getting out of touch with their ordinary concerns that they have about whether there are jobs or not. If 153,000 people are unemployed you’ve got the highest unemployment in Otago, for 20 years, John Key's created a two speed economy where his mates are getting rich, and other people are struggling. The Achilles Heel is there. It's that New Zealanders are falling out of love with John Key and we need a leader in the Labour Party who's gonna be able to exploit that.
Sean Shane Jones, how would you beat John Key?
Shane Well there's a reason I called the Prime Minister a 50 million dollar gorilla. This is a very wealthy and powerful man, backed by one of New Zealand's most wealthiest men from the Goodfellow family. So don’t underestimate how vicious and clever they're going to be in framing Labour. The way to beat this guy is to win New Zealanders over. Sure we can remind everyone that he doesn’t tell the truth, and that he lives in Parnell, but at the end of the day the Labour brand has to be a waka that people naturally choose, and when they choose our waka because we offer something that’s demonstrably different from Key. Don’t underestimate Key's charm to talk to New Zealanders in such a way he beguiles them. Sure he is a tika merchant as we say in Maori, but the way to deal with him is to win New Zealanders back to the Labour waka.
Sean Okay, so you would portray a positive message rather than a negative one?
Shane The average Kiwi expects an Opposition politician to be negative. Every day in the House in terms of question time whether we like it or not it's adversarial, but Kiwis coming from Strugglers Gully, actually like that aspirational message, and we've gotta claim that positive message which is externally focused as Heartland Labour elite.
Sean I've made the observation guys that you are all guys, and let's revisit something that caused some problems for David Shearer in the party, the socalled man ban or gender equality, preferential candidate selection is another way to describe it. You were absent Grant Robertson as the Council meeting, or you had stepped out for a cuppa tea when the decision to proceed with that was made?
Grant That was the day that I was door knocking in Upper Hutt to get people to vote for Meka Whaitiri in the Ikaroa bi-election, and I briefly attended the meeting when I would finish that door knocking, so I wasn't there when that discussion took place no.
Sean Do you agree with the policy or the idea of the sentiment of it?
Grant I certainly agree with the sentiment of having more women in parliament, and I'm actually really proud that Labour has got around 42% women compared to National with 25%. I want to see that increase and there are a number of different mechanisms that we can use to make sure that happens. The main thing is to be able to encourage and attract women to run for parliament. All of us in politics have got a responsibility to make sure that that happens, and I'll certainly be doing that as Labour Leader.
Sean If the man ban came up again would you support it?
Grant Look I think I support the decision that both the New Zealand Council has made and the caucus has made that it was acting as a distraction, that particular mechanism, but I want to work right across our party to get more women into parliament, and I think if all parties did that it would be a much better place.
Sean David Cunliffe, where are you on the matter?
David Yeah really simply, really clearly, I'm committed to a binding target of 50% women by 2017. How we get there is a matter for the party not a matter for the caucus leader. The man ban, the women only short list was not a particular mechanism that was my preference….
Sean The party though say they do want a quota?
David No the party hasn’t said that. The New Zealand Council has put that forward to the conference floor as one option among many. Look I think at the end of the day there's a recognition we're gonna need some kind of affirmative action programme, but the way I read it, even amongst the party's Women's Council is that the women only short list is by no means the preferred option of how to do that. So let's leave it to the conference floor, it's not a barrow I'm pushing, but I am very clear that I want to see 50% women's representation in the caucus.
Sean Shane Jones.
Shane I want to win. I've already had a meeting with the two reps from our Labour Party Women's Council. I put my hand up, and some of my language was a little bit rich around this issue, but I do not agree with a policy that is a man ban. I do agree on merit that we should increase the percentage of women in parliament through our party.
Sean Shane Jones, one of your close allies, Damien O'Connor, of course famously said the Labour Party was full of gays and self interested unionists. Do you think it is?
Shane No the party's not full of gays and unionists. What the problem is there's only 34 of us and there's not enough faces that actually average Kiwis feel that they can see us. And if anyone doubts that, then why is only 18% of all the New Zealand population with a right to vote voting Labour. So I would definitely broaden the talent pool, but you shouldn’t do that by declaring war on either the unionists or the gay community. But I would say this, probably the Labour Party at the moment's got a big enough rainbow, it's the pot at the end of the rainbow that Labour needs to win.
Sean Alright, this question to all of you, I'll start with Grant Robertson. Which Labour Leader would you most like to emulate?
Grant Norman Kirk is the person that I look to Sean. I think he was a man who had a huge vision for New Zealand but a practical touch to connect that vision to what New Zealanders were going through every day. He stood up on the world stage, he made New Zealanders proud and I often think about what would have happened if he'd lived a bit longer. One thing I know for sure is that we would have had a superannuation scheme that could be investing in New Zealand companies right now with billions of dollars to create jobs for New Zealanders.
Sean Alright David Cunliffe, who would you most like to be like?
David No doubt about it, Michael Joseph Savage, and the reason for that is that we're at a point in history like the end of the Great Depression, where are the end of the Great Recession, and we need a new programme, a new beginning, and this is the time for some real change. And just like Michael Joseph Savage try to show a real love and compassion and work alongside all Kiwis from whatever walk of life. That’s what I want to do too. Get down, be very real about people's needs for a decent roof over their head, a good job, food on the table, a school they can depend on, free health care when they need it. That’s what Labour's basics are.
Sean Now Shane Jones who is it that you want to be like?
Shane Similar to Grant in the sense, I was there when Norman Kirk took the hand of that little mokopuna Maori at Waitangi, and that really is one of the enduring images I have of our party. So he was a practical guy, larger than life, and died well before his time, a fate I hope I don’t suffer. But nah he'd be one of my major heroes. Now the thing about Helen, she was into social provision and anti-discrimination, Labour can no longer have that as its dominating brand.
Sean To all of you – is this the last roll of the dice if you don’t become leader? Very quick answer. Will you stick around and be happy to be led by one of the other two? David Cunliffe?
Sean Shane Jones?
Shane Oh mate I'm in to win, I haven't thought a single thing beyond the 3rd of September which is my birthday or the 15th of September when we know who the rangatira is.
Sean And Grant
Robertson, will you stick
Grant Absolutely committed to the Labour Party and Labour's values and getting them in place next year.
Sean Alright, and we will know in two weeks gentlemen. I know you have got a busy day ahead of you, a busy two weeks ahead of you. I wish you well. Good luck, and we will talk again perhaps before it's all over. Grant Robertson, Shane Jones and David Cunliffe there, the contenders for the Labour Party Leadership.