Key ‘likely to raise concerns’ with CHOGM host Sri Lanka
Sunday 10 November,
2013
Former Commonwealth
Secretary-General Sir Donald McKinnon says PM Key ‘likely
to raise concerns’ with CHOGM host Sri Lanka over human
rights record.
“Yes, there are still
outstanding issues there and there are still issues that
that government has to address. And there’s always going
to be a bit of debate – do you go there and say something
about it, or do you boycott it and say nothing about it face
to face?”
Sir Donald McKinnon says Sri Lanka’s
human rights record has improved but says had the country
agreed to the UN coming in several years ago it would have
helped its standing internationally.
“The fact
they disagreed with the UN coming in just didn’t help
them, but they’re very conscious that when they do have
CHOGM, there’s a huge amount of global press there.
They’ve got to make sure— You can’t hide
everything.
“And that’s the very thing – I
think he should have taken it and said, ‘Come here, Human
Rights of the UN. Come and look at us. Tell us what we
need to do.’ He’d be In a much better position if
he’d done that than, you know, saying, ‘No, do not
come. I can handle this’,” Sir Donald
says.
There have been calls for Prime Minister John
Key to boycott the meeting following Canada’s Prime
Minister Stephen Harper move to do so.
Sir Donald
McKinnon says it is difficult for the Commonwealth to be
tougher on Sri Lanka because it is difficult to get full
agreement on how to address the issues.
“There
are those who will say, ‘You’ve got to hit them
harder,’ those who will say, ‘You’ve got to help them
out of this hole they’ve dug for
themselves.’
He says Prime Minister John Key is
most likely to raise concerns about how the country is
progressing on human rights at the leader’s
retreat.
“And, you know, as one who sat through
many of those where you just have the leaders on their own,
plus the Secretary-General, they are extraordinarily candid
with each other because they all believe that one can pull
down the others.”
When asked what New Zealand
could hope to gain from this meeting, Sir Donald McKinnon
said New Zealand would want to see progress occurring in
Fiji “which I think probably will
occur”.
“This is the chance for any one leader,
John Key included, to sometimes resolve issues that become
irresolvable. If the officials and the foreign minister,
the diplomats can’t, sometimes a face to face with a
leader can resolve it. It might be a trade issue. It
might be a consci— It might be a New Zealander languishing
in a jail somewhere.”
He also says New Zealand
will be actively campaigning for its Security Council
seat.
“Here’s 53 votes, and I have no doubt
that John Key will be working very hard. After all, we
don’t have a lot of contact with African leaders or, in
fact, Caribbean leaders.
“Now, there’s—
between those two, there’s 33 votes. That’s a fair
chunk of votes. If you can secure all those for the
Security Council, this is the place to get
them.”
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Q
+ A
CORIN DANN INTERVIEWS SIR DON
MCKINNON
SUSAN
SIR DON MCKINNON – Former
Commonwealth Secretary-General
Oh, very much so,
and when I was Secretary-General, the Sri Lankan president
wanted to host CHOGM much earlier than this. And I made
the point that, really, the Commonwealth wasn’t ready to
go to Sri Lanka. Now, after I left office, clearly things
had changed and the other members decided that they could go
to Sri Lanka. Yes, there are still outstanding issues
there and there are still issues that that government has to
address. And there’s always going to be a bit of debate
– do you go there and say something about it, or do you
boycott it and say nothing about it face to
face?
CORIN
But has Sri Lanka improved enough in that human
rights area for it to justifiably be able to hold it this
year, in your mind?
DON
It has improved over
the years. I still think they should have agreed to the UN
coming in a few years ago, and that would have actually
helped their international persona. The fact they
disagreed with the UN coming in just didn’t help them, but
they’re very conscious that when they do have CHOGM,
there’s a huge amount of global press there. They’ve got
to make sure— You can’t hide
everything.
CORIN
So you obviously had a chance to meet with Prime
Minister Rajapaksa. What were your impressions of him?
What sort of a regime is he—? That’s probably an
unkind word, but what sort of a leadership does he, in fact,
ha ve?
DON
President Rajapaksa
– he’s a very very strong personality. He’s a rugby
fanatic, believe it or not, too. But he’s determined to
do good for his country. I think we’d all probably
disagree on how he went about it and what he’s achieved,
but the last time I was in Colombo, I’ve got to say I was
impressed with the economic activity, and everything was
going. Everything was moving. Everything was very vibrant
there. All the previous times I went there you were going
past sandbagged corners, soldiers with rifles everywhere.
It has changed, but the legacy of that war is still there,
and he’s really got to do more to correct
that.
CORIN Yeah, on
that point, I mean, the UN Human Rights Commissioner did
raise concerns that there wasn’t enough being done to
investigate war crimes from that civil
war.
DON
And that’s the very thing – I think he should
have taken it and said, ‘Come here, Human Rights of the
UN. Come and look at us. Tell us what we need to
do.’ He’d be in a much better position if he’d done
that than, you know, saying, ‘No, do not come. I can
handle
this.’
CORIN
The Commonwealth has shown, though, that it can be
quite tough on these sorts of issues with governments.
We’ve seen that with Fiji. What’s the difference
here? Why can’t the Commonwealth be much sterner with
Sri Lanka? Because we have seen, for example, Canada’s
Prime Minister boycotting, so there are some that clearly
would like that.
DON
Yeah. Well, probably
you don’t always get full agreement on how to address
these issues. The issue of Fiji and Pakistan, Nigeria that I
was dealing with and Zimbabwe in my time, even those
weren’t very clear-cut. It is a case of making sure you
take the membership with you if you’re going to move in
that direction, and clearly there was uncertainty about
whether that was the right thing to do about Sri Lanka at
the present time. That’s not an uncommon thing. There
are those who will say, ‘You’ve got to hit them
harder,’ those who will say, ‘You’ve got to help them
out of this hole they’ve dug for
themselves.’
CORIN What
about New Zealand, then? Should New Zealand not be
following the likes of Canada and perhaps making a small
protest by not sending John Key?
DON
Well, that’s
entirely a judgement for the New Zealand Government,
obviously, and they have decided that it is better to be
engaged, to encourage, to try and see changes take
place.
CORIN
But perhaps of more concern, though, I mean, Canada
also talking about withdrawing funding potentially for the
Commonwealth Heads of Government. Is that a risk? Does
that show that perhaps cracks are now forming within this
organisation?
DON
Well, it does show
divergence of opinion. Again, not uncommon. Canada has
always taken a pretty rigid stance on a lot of these
issues. Sometimes I’d say they did the right thing, and
sometimes I’d say they might be getting ahead of
themselves. Look, that is ultimately their judgement. At
no stage would I ever believe that Canada would walk away
from the
Commonwealth.
CORIN So what
do you expect, though, from New Zealand at this meeting?
Do you expect John Key to at least – at the very least –
raise some public concerns or make some public assessment of
how he believes Sri Lanka is progressing in terms of human
rights?
DON
I’m sure it’ll happen, and it’s more likely
to happen in the retreat. And, you know, as one who sat
through many of those where you just have the leaders on
their own, plus the Secretary-General, they are
extraordinarily candid with each other because they all
believe that one can pull down the others. And I have no
doubt that these issues will be raised, not just probably by
New Zealand but by others. Again, when President Rajapaksa
wanted to host CHOGM some years before, it was his near
neighbours who said, ‘No, no, no. It is far too early.
He’s got a lot of things to sort out
yet.’
CORIN
Yeah, because India, for one, hasn’t made a
decision yet whether it will send its leader, so there’s
obviously some big regional tension there as well.
DON
Well, yes, and given
the make-up of India and the very strong Tamil community in
the south of India, there will be a high level of
sensitivity on that issue from Prime Minister Manmohan
Singh.
CORIN There’s
some reports that there may be a ban on protests or there
might be some limited restrictions on protesters. If that
is true, would that be a concern? Because that would send
a pretty bad message, wouldn’t it, for CHOGM and what
it’s trying to do.
DON
Oh yes. Yeah,
yeah. It would be a concern, and there’s probably not a
CHOGM that some leaders haven’t wished that the protesters
weren’t there. There will be protesters, I’m sure, and
the important thing is that they are permitted to protest
without totally destroying the conference.
CORIN The
other interesting factor about this conference is Prince
Charles is going to be there. Now, is he essent—? Is
this about him starting to take more of a bigger role in
these types of affairs, do you believe? And what do you
think we may expect to see from Prince Charles at CHOGM this
year?
DON
I think that started a
few years ago, really, and I got Prince Charles involved in
the CHOGM in Uganda for that very reason. I think we’ve
all got to accept Her Majesty’s now in her late 80s and
travelling long distances does take its toll, and she fully
understands the need that she won’t be able to do all the
things she would normally wish to do. Here’s an
opportunity for the heir to the throne to participate. He
does stand in for her in a great number of occasions, and he
has, you know, over the period of time since he came to
Uganda had a chance to once again renew his own knowledge of
the Commonwealth and Commonwealth
governments.
CORIN Will he
be as committed, though, as the Queen in terms of the future
of this organisation? Should he essentially take over her
role?
DON
Oh, I hope he would be, and I think he would be.
I think he was going through a period where he didn’t
actually want to compete directly with his mother, and
therefore he took a lot of interest in other places.
However, on becoming the king, you know, it’s quite a
different ball
game.
CORIN
So what do you think New Zealand will look to come
away with from this meeting? What can it hope to gain?
What will it be looking for, do you think?
DON
Well, you certainly
want to see the advancement of the very things we stand up
for, that is, you know, better governance of areas where
governance is still limited. We’d want to see progress
occurring in Fiji, which I think probably will occur. But
don’t underestimate, again, the ability of putting all
these leaders together. This is the chance for any one
leader, John Key included, to sometimes resolve issues that
become irresolvable. If the officials and the foreign
minister, the diplomats can’t, sometimes a face to face
with a leader can resolve it. It might be a trade issue.
It might be a consci— It might be a New Zealander
languishing in a jail somewhere. Sometimes these are the
things that can be resolved. Don’t forget also, you
know, New Zealand is now campaigning actively to get a seat
on the Security Council. Here’s 53 votes, and I have no
doubt that John Key will be working very hard. After all,
we don’t have a lot of contact with African leaders or, in
fact, Caribbean leaders. Now, there’s— between those
two, there’s 33 votes. That’s a fair chunk of votes.
If you can secure all those for the Security Council, this
is the place to get
them.
CORIN Does that
make a place where John Key will be more active in terms of
raising issues about human rights, or will we be less
active, given we’re after that seat?
DON
I don’t think it
will change the narrative at all because New Zealand has a
pretty strong narrative on human rights, and you can’t
just alter it according to the conference you’re
at.
CORIN
Just one final question on President Rajapaksa.
My apologies for getting that wrong earlier. There have
been criticisms that he has shown slight sort of dictatorial
tendencies in his leadership. In your experience with him,
do you see it that way, that he is—? I mean, reports of
journalists being harassed, intimidation, harassment. Is
there a concern that he’s behaving a bit more like a
dictator than an elected
president?
DON
Well, there’s no
question that the Rajapaksa family alone has something like
five— four of his brothers are all heavily involved. As
for being a dictator, look, he is certainly a strong leader,
and the world is not without strong leaders. That country
has actually had quite strong leaders over a long period of
time, so within the body politic of Sri Lankan politics,
you’ve got to be a pretty tough person to survive there.
He does have a parliament, he does have an opposition
– not a very strong one – but nevertheless, you do want
to see an adherence to the normal governing values which
countries should aspire
to.
ENDS