Luxon And Hipkins Talk Coalition Dynamics, People Skills And Direction For The 2026 Election

Thursday, 29 May 2025, 6:26 pm
Article: RNZ

Jo Moir, Political Editor

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has revealed his biggest surprise since entering politics: how many politicians lack people skills.

As Parliament reaches the mid-point of the political term - and the handover of the deputy prime ministership from Winston Peters to David Seymour - RNZ sat down with both Luxon and Labour leader Chris Hipkins to reflect on the past 18 months.

And Luxon wasn't the only one taking aim at his colleagues, with Hipkins observing he did not think Te Pāti Māori had done a good job of speaking up for Māori wāhine on pay equity in recent weeks, instead concentrating on its own "song and dance around the privileges committee".

Luxon on coalition dynamics

Luxon told RNZ the skills required to pull National out of its opposition "dysfunction" were similar to what was now needed when leading a three-party coalition government.

While compromise was required in a coalition, Luxon said the starting point for him was New Zealand First and ACT signing up to National's platform.

"And then, okay, there's also things that were peculiar or particular to both New Zealand First and ACT that are in those agreements that maybe National didn't agree with."

Luxon stressed the importance of relationships: "You've got to know each person, you've got to understand what drives them, motivates them, and actually build a relationship, build a rapport."

He said he spoke daily with one or both coalition partners and valued face-to-face meetings or "physical time together".

Asked to pick a favourite, he first laughed, before saying NZ First leader Winston Peters and ACT leader David Seymour were "both different and equally special to me".

"Winston's someone I've got to know and respect, and we've been able to build a good relationship and a good understanding of each other."

That did not mean he and Peters agreed on everything, he said, and it was a different relationship compared with Seymour, who he simply described as someone he had known as his neighbour in Auckland for years before entering politics.

With next year's election looming, Luxon said it was important to him to look for and develop new talent to run for National.

He said he came to politics four years ago "realising that we're actually in the people business", but found "people in politics don't have very good people skills".

"There's often very poor professional and leadership development for these folk," he said.

"A 35-year-old can show up here, and then you look forward at the age of 55, and they're not that much different from what they were at 35."

Hipkins on Labour's lessons

Hipkins said National's "instability and infighting" in opposition had served as "a cautionary tale" for Labour MPs, as well as his own past experience in the political wilderness.

That had taught him when a party lacked "a good, trusting, robust internal culture", it led to instability.

"Politics is full of big personalities, it's full of passionate people and politics is fuelled on disagreement, so if you want to have a really unified, cohesive team, you have to create space where people can disagree with each other and argue that out constructively."

He pointed to his reported rift with colleague David Parker over tax: "I still regard him as a friend, and we still get on very well on a personal level ... you can disagree with someone without it becoming personal."

Like Luxon, Hipkins is aware of the importance of maintaining open dialogue with his potential coalition partners, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori.

"We are happy to continue to do that but we are separate parties, and ultimately we're each responsible for our own decisions."

But that did not stop him criticising the prime minister, saying Luxon's reluctance to establish National's dominance in the coalition set him apart from predecessors like Helen Clark, Sir Bill English and Sir John Key.

He pointed to Te Pāti Māori's recent priorities as a point of difference with Labour.

"I think there are a lot of Māori women up and down the country who would like to have seen the Māori Party talking about the fact the government's cut their pay, rather than the song and dance around the privileges committee."

Hipkins intends to make it clear in the lead-up to the next election what are "no-go zones" for Labour when it comes to any potential coalition partners or their policies.

Peters this week "permanently" ruled out forming a coalition with Labour under Hipkins' leadership.

Hipkins said he ruled out working with NZ First and Winston Peters ahead of the last election and that was unlikely to change "even if the political landscape suggests that might mean another three years in opposition".

"New Zealanders have had a gutsful of having David Seymour and Winston Peters holding the country to ransom, and I don't want to do anything that gives them more power to do that."

As opposition leader, he said he had made a point of applying one basic rule.

"I won't criticise the government for doing something that I would do in the same circumstances.

"I've seen other leaders of the opposition do that, where basically they get into a mould where anything the government does is bad and therefore needs to be criticised."

Looking ahead to 2026

The term's half-way point also signals a shift in parties' priorities as next year's election creeps closer.

Hipkins told RNZ he wanted another shot as prime minister, arguing his first turn was not on his own terms, and rejected suggestions his track record could hurt his chances.

He did not believe his time as prime minister or lead minister for the Covid response had tarnished his reputation, saying he felt most New Zealanders understood the conditions he was working under.

"Actually, I think it would make me a better prime minister the second time around, because I've had eight months of figuring out the job, and I know what to expect, and therefore I know how to prepare for it."

Luxon, meanwhile, said he would remain laser-focused on New Zealanders over the next 18 months and would not be distracted by so-called culture wars, which he says he does his best to avoid responding to when other political parties have pushed narratives around gender, diversity and inclusion.

He said the New Zealand public was "over the platitudes".

"They're over the high language, they're over the process stories, they're over the beltway conversations that often happen here in Wellington and other capitals around the world," he said.

"They want their politicians to freakin' deliver, and that's what it's about ... that's what New Zealanders care about, that's the only thing they care about, outcomes."

On Friday on rnz.co.nz deputy political editor Craig McCulloch sits down with David Seymour and Winston Peters.

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