Sitting date: 15 July 2025

ORAL QUESTIONS

QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS

Question No. 1—Finance

1. RYAN HAMILTON (National—Hamilton East) to the Minister of Finance: What recent announcements has she made on the cost of living?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): Last week, I announced the Government is expanding the FamilyBoost scheme to help families pay for early childhood education and assist them with the cost of living. From the start of this month, families will get larger rebates on early childhood fees, and the abatement rate for families earning more than $140,000 per year will reduce. These changes will put more money in the bank accounts of households currently receiving FamilyBoost and make the scheme available to thousands more families who were previously ineligible for it. People will start to notice the difference in their bank accounts from October, when the payment for the first three months of this financial year begin to flow through.

Ryan Hamilton: What difference will the changes being made to FamilyBoost make to households?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: A household paying $100 a week, say, for early childhood education costs could have its weekly FamilyBoost payments increase from $25 to $40. That adds up to $780 over the course of the year, making that family a lot better off. A household with early childhood fees of $300 a week could have its weekly payments increase from $75 to $120 a week. The actual amount households receive will depend on how much they pay for early childhood education and their household income. Households with annual incomes of less than $140,000 will be eligible to receive the full rebate. The rebate will start to taper off once household income passes $140,000 and end just after household income passes $229,000.

Ryan Hamilton: How many households will benefit from the changes to FamilyBoost?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: To date, about 63,000 households have already benefited from the scheme, and the changes announced last week will make around 22,000 more families eligible, and the estimated take-up will be around 16,000 more. That means more families getting assistance with the cost of living at a time when many households face additional expenses in their life. It will be of great help to parents with young children.

Ryan Hamilton: What has the response been to the expansion of FamilyBoost?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: I've seen a statement from the Early Childhood Council CEO, Simon Laube, that states that the changes the Government is making to FamilyBoost will "increase children's ability to access quality childcare and make the scheme much more attractive". This follows feedback from parents praising the scheme, including one parent with children at an early childhood education provider in Johnsonville, who said, "It's been an absolute lifesaver and life-changing for us. It has been super helpful, and we have been able to budget more into our quarterly plans as a result."

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. Rt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government's statements and actions?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes. In particular, our action to break up Te Pūkenga and restore regional polytechnics to local control, because towns like Invercargill and Nelson have huge pride in their local polytechs, but, under the previous Minister of Education, Chris Hipkins, they were collapsed into a single national entity. It was an expensive and wasteful mega-merger and it robbed communities of their local identities. So I want to congratulate the responsible Minister for all her work to right that wrong and to put polytechnics back under local control. [Interruption]

SPEAKER: Before the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins asks his next question, can I just indicate that that level of barracking was just ridiculous. Rare and reasonable and, if possible, on point.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: How many Kiwis have left New Zealand since he became Prime Minister?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, just a little bit of context for the member: he'll remember through the six years of the global financial crisis the net migration of New Zealanders going to Australia was higher than it currently is. In the last year of the Labour Government, it was actually 29,379, and the net migration in the first year of the new Government in 2024 was 29,952.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does he consider it a success that 184,000 Kiwis—equivalent to the entire population of Hamilton—have left New Zealand under his leadership?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I'd just encourage the member to look and use net migration—that's the standard way that we look at these things. But the reason people leave a country is because they think they can earn higher incomes somewhere else. What this Government's doing is making sure that we fix the economy. Because why are they leaving? They're leaving because there was high inflation, high interest rates, the economy shrunk, and people were put out of work. And that was because of the last Government.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Have 184,000 people given up and left—the highest rate since National was in Government last time—because his Government's failed to tackle the cost of living crisis, butter now costing $10 at the supermarket, insurance going up, rates going up, power bills going up, and transport costs going up, just to name a few?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, if the member really cared about people struggling with the cost of living, he'd get in behind and support FamilyBoost, he'd actually get in behind and actually support fast-track regulation, he actually would have supported tax relief for working New Zealanders—never gave them tax relief in 14 years. Low and middle income Kiwis deserve it after he ran up high inflation, he ran up high interest rates, he put the economy into recession.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Have 184,000 Kiwis left because the FamilyBoost policy he just mentioned has delivered $75 to just 390 out of the 21,000 families he promised were going to get it and he still can't identify a single family with kids that's received the full $250 a fortnight he promised them during the election campaign?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: There's been over 60,000 people that have actually received the FamilyBoost payment. What I think is fantastic is—and the member should be encouraging this to support Kiwis, actually, with the cost of living crisis that he created through economic mismanagement—that we are making sure we're actually getting support to working families. If the member really cared about it, he would have actually supported increasing tax thresholds for low and middle income working New Zealanders. That was not an ideological policy; that was just basic common sense to support working New Zealanders. He doesn't care about working New Zealanders.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: If he's aiming to help low-income New Zealanders get ahead, why has the minimum wage in New Zealand not kept up with inflation, potentially leading to low-paid Kiwi workers going to Australia, where the minimum wage increases have at least matched inflation?

Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Because he doesn't care about them.

SPEAKER: Either the Leader of the Opposition wants an answer, which should be the desire of all those who support him, or he doesn't.

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What I'm proud about is this is a Government that is tackling the cost of living through better Government spending and stopping the wasteful spending that was previously happening. Inflation has gone from 7.3 percent down to 2.5 percent; interest rates have come down, I think, 2.25 percent; and, as a result, that's $320 on an average mortgage each fortnight back into Kiwis' pockets. We've actually made sure that rents are now stable after having increased $180 per week under his previous Government—they're actually down $5 per week at this moment. That's all good stuff. And I would hope that that member actually could get over the politics. Why doesn't he just say thank you to this Government for supporting the low and middle income working New Zealanders that he purports to care about, but did nothing about it when he had his chance in Government.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: So is his position that New Zealanders struggling with the cost of living should just be more grateful to the Government that's increasing their rates, increasing their power bills, increasing their insurance, increasing their car registration, and failing to deliver them the cost of living support that they promised them during the election campaign?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, we're not increasing rates; councils are increasing rates. And I'd welcome that member's support of our drive on councils, because this happens to be Local Government Week, and I'll be very interested to see whether he's encouraging those members of Labour, Green mayors across the country to actually reign in profligate spending. Let's see what he says in his speech, eh?

Question No. 3—Resources

ANDY FOSTER (NZ First): My question is to the Minister for Resources and asks—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: Hang on. Questions are heard in silence. I know everyone's very excited today for various reasons. We'll start again, please.

3. ANDY FOSTER (NZ First) to the Minister for Resources: What actions is the Government taking to increase economic growth in the resources sector?

Hon SHANE JONES (Minister for Resources): With characteristic modesty, I recently travelled to Singapore and Sydney, and a host of people asked me, as a Cabinet Minister, to confirm that the foolish moment of cancelling the oil and gas industry was really over. I confirmed that it was, and legislation will soon pass. I also, in the context of economic growth, gave a glowing account of the fast-track legislation, the most permissive regime in Australasia. Not surprisingly, people are flocking to the resources sector, including Federation Mining, which is soon to enjoy an infusion of additional capital. Jobs will flourish and, indeed, we will regard it as a glowing light on a hill.

Andy Foster: What updates can he give about the fast track?

Hon SHANE JONES: Obviously, the fast track is designed not only for mining projects but a host of others, because we need to ensure that such proposals are not hobbled by red tape or, indeed, lost in serpentine processes in the bureaucracy. The one-stop shop is a key feature out of our coalition agreement. It is developing a host of pipeline projects, and in the event applicants strike problems that we did not understand in the construction of this legislation, the Minister responsible and myself will ensure that they are swept away.

Andy Foster: What recent engagements has he had with potential investors in the New Zealand resources sector?

Hon SHANE JONES: I have endeavoured to assure investors in the resources sector that we have decriminalised the coal industry, we have validated the gas industry, and we are not in the business of visiting moral judgments upon various elements of the economy because we remain agnostic as to how we keep the lights on. I had the privilege of addressing a host of mining investors, professionals in Sydney. They regard the quality of leadership that I have shown on behalf of the Government of such stature they invited me to be a politician in Canberra.

Hon Dr Duncan Webb: Take it up!

SPEAKER: Just wait.

Andy Foster: What will reversing the ban on oil and gas exploration do for the New Zealand economy?

Hon SHANE JONES: Sadly, gas supplies have decreased, worsened by the Jacinda Ardern cancellation of an entire industry which now afflicts our energy and electricity sector. The danger of such showy, empty gestures will be laid out by me next Friday, 12 o'clock at New Plymouth in a public meeting where I will remind everyone that the cost of electricity is linked to the ongoing affordable access to fossil fuels, something that this Minister is taking advice on in terms of ensuring we have adequate levels of access to our own coal and we expand gas whilst the wind blows, the sun shines, and the rain falls.

Hon Kieran McAnulty: Point of order, sir. It has been canvassed in this House a number of times, Government Ministers and parties using patsy questions or questions to themselves to criticise the decisions of previous Governments. That's been established. It'd be useful to know whether it is OK for Ministers to be using them to criticise decisions that they themselves were part of.

SPEAKER: Well, that is an interesting question and one that I'll spend some time thinking about, but what I would say is that there is no prohibition on Ministers referring to policies of the past that they're currently dealing with.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is the Minister saying that he's going to stop virtue signalling by using our coal rather than importing inferior offshore coal?

SPEAKER: Well, that question is sort of interesting because it's hardly factual as soon as you say "virtue signalling", but, anyway, I'm sure that the honourable Minister will make every effort to stay within the bounds of Standing Orders.

Hon SHANE JONES: Coal before dole. Now, on the matter of the coal exports, they are continuing. They will not be ruled out by this Government. We have changed legislation that sought to demonise and criminalise the coal industry. We're not in the business of moral arbitration and, more importantly, we have our own fields of coal for the purposes of electricity, and whilst it is not fully available at the moment, advice has been sought so we are not totally reliant on Indonesian coal, up to a million tonnes. In fact, I feel the need for a new coal-fired power station.

SPEAKER: No time for an urgent debate on that, but we'll go to question No. 4.

Question No. 4—Prime Minister

4. CHLÖE SWARBRICK (Co-Leader—Green) to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ngā kōrero me ngā mahi katoa a tōna Kāwanatanga?

[Does he stand by all of his Government's statements and actions?]

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Does the Prime Minister accept that any Government policy decision which increases emissions directly increases the frequency and severity of extreme weather events like the historic flooding seen in the Nelson Tasman region?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What I accept is that this is a Government that has got a very good plan to make sure we have net carbon zero by 2050. On our latest plan it's good to see that we might even do that six years early.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Does increasing climate changing emissions increase the frequency and severity of climate change charged weather events?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I think the effects of climate change on extreme weather events are well understood and well known. What I was very proud about was, again, to see an amazing response in Nelson Tasman from our central government, from local government, from regional civil defence—the way they worked together having spoken to those mayors. We've been very proud of the response from our first responders and our civil defence teams.

Chlöe Swarbrick: How does the Prime Minister reconcile his comments following those floods that "Many other countries from around the world are also wrestling with the same issue. You've just seen horrific floods in Texas last week, and we want to make sure that we are doing everything" with his decision to have taxpayers subsidise fossil fuel exploration to the tune of $200 million in his most recent Government Budget?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I just reject the characterisation of that question because the problem that this country has in an energy security sense is that we don't have enough gas. We are, rather uniquely, the only country I know on Earth that's making the rather odd transition to go from domestic gas to international coal. That is a function of the Labour-Green decision to end oil and gas exploration. We are repealing that. We are wanting to double the amount the renewables through the fast-track legislation. I'll just say, if the member really cared about climate change, they'd get onboard and actually support repealing the oil and gas ban and actually support fast-track.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Is the Prime Minister aware that his own advice issued to the Government says that the new gas fields that he is talking about subsidising would take approximately 10 years to come online, and is he therefore seriously suggesting that the solution to our energy supply problem is to become more reliant on global supply chains of fossil fuels that are vulnerable to disruption?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What I'm absolutely certain about is a Labour Greens policy that actually was ending oil and gas led to rapidly rising wholesale electricity prices, which put huge pressure on our industrial businesses, which actually put low- and middle-income working people out of jobs. We care about working New Zealanders and as a result that's why we're changing the planning laws, that's why we're ending the oil and gas ban, so we have affordable and abundant energy because that's what Kiwis want.

Chlöe Swarbrick: If Government policies increase emissions and therefore the threat of extreme weather events, which require billions of dollars to clean up as well as disrupting food systems, upending lives and livelihoods, will that increase or decrease the cost of living for New Zealanders?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I utterly reject the characterisation of the question. This Government has an emissions reduction plan that will see net carbon zero by 2050. What this Government will not do is actually have low- and middle-income New Zealanders lose their jobs because of a reckless energy policy from a Labour Greens previous Government. That's not happening under this Government.

SPEAKER: Question five, the Hon Barbara Edmonds, when the House has settled itself. Someone is going to have to symbolically leave, I think, just to get a bit of discipline into the place. [Interruption] No, I'd nominate the member who just asked that question if I had to. The Hon Barbara Edmonds when the House is silent.

Question No. 5—Finance

5. Hon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour—Mana) to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by her statement she is "seeing signs of growth across our economy"; if so, why?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): Yes. The economy expanded by 0.8 percent in the first three months of this year, following growth of 0.5 percent in the last three months of 2024. We've had two consecutive quarters of per capita growth, after eight quarters of negative or no growth. The rate of growth that has been occurring is at rates higher than previously forecast, and in the March period, at a rate quadruple that of Australia. That is not just "signs of growth"; that is actual growth. Global events do mean that it will be challenging to sustain those levels of growth into the June quarter. "Nonetheless," to quote the Treasury's latest Fortnightly Economic Update, "conditions for growth remain in place as mortgage rates continue to fall and optimism for the future lifts."

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Why, then, is the number of financial hardship cases—as reported by Centrix—14.4 percent higher than a year ago?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: We are still seeing the impacts of unemployment, and I want to be clear with the House: it has been forecast for some time that employment would be peaking at around this period. However, I'm also happy to let the House know that the unemployment levels we are experiencing now are lower than was predicted in the Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Update 2023. To inform the House more specifically of the numbers, in the 2025 quarter, Grant Robertson's pre-election update said there would be 165,000 people unemployed. The actual number under this Government was lower: 156,000.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Why is the number of people behind on debt repayments growing, now at almost half a million people?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: I feel for anyone who is in that situation, and it is obviously a combination of factors that impact households. On the one hand, as I've just outlined, the critical thing for any household is whether or not they're able to obtain employment. That is why we are so focused on growing the economy, so that businesses have the confidence to create and sustain good-paying jobs. The other effect that is clear is the transmission of lower interest rates into the economy. While a significant portion of New Zealanders have refixed their mortgages at the much lower interest rates available under this Government, it is also the case that not all have had the opportunity to do so yet, but I am advised by the Reserve Bank that over the coming months, many thousands more New Zealanders will have the opportunity of more household income afforded to them by lower interest rates.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Does she accept responsibility for the fact that Kiwis are doing it tough right now, and are therefore having to dip into their KiwiSaver, with hardship withdrawals up 44 percent?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Again, I think it is always of concern when New Zealanders feel that they need to dip into their KiwiSaver in order to address pressures in their household. What I do take responsibility for is cleaning up the economic mismanagement that occurred under the past Government, and in particular, for the following things: the fact that food price inflation that was in double digits in May 2023 is now down; the fact that housing costs for those who are on mortgages have lowered; and that in many parts of the country, rents have, in fact, dropped; the fact that we froze petrol taxes that were intended to be in place by the last Government, and removed the regional fuel tax; and the fact that 1.9 million households under this Government, on average, received a $60 boost per fortnight thanks to our tax relief.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Why did she not mention in her list that the other thing growing in this economy is the number of people going to Australia, with 47,000 Kiwis leaving in the last year alone?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: I have said for many years as a member of this House that one of my goals is to ensure that there are jobs and opportunities in New Zealand such that more New Zealanders feel they can pursue their ambitions and aspirations in New Zealand. I note that that net migration loss is almost exactly the same as it was in the year prior, under the previous Government, and it remains the Government's mission to ensure that this economy is growing in such a way that more New Zealanders wish to follow their prospects here. But I'll tell you this, members: there is one sure thing that will drive more New Zealanders to Australia—and the most talented ones with the most ability to create jobs—and that is slamming additional taxes on them. [Interruption]

SPEAKER: OK. We're just about at the end of it, and I'd suggest to some of the members along the front bench to my left that it would be a good idea for them to just be a little more respectful of people about to ask a question.

Question No. 6—Health

6. Dr CARLOS CHEUNG (National—Mt Roskill) to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has the Government made to improve access to elective procedures for New Zealanders?

Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health): The Government recently announced the next phase of our successful elective boost programme. It will see 21,000 more elective procedures carried out over this year through both public hospitals and private providers. With over 215,000 procedures set to be delivered over this year—21,000 more than previously planned—wait times will reduce and Kiwis will have access to the life-changing operations they require. We're removing the hold-ups, providing certainty, and unlocking capacity across the system to put patients first.

Dr Carlos Cheung: How many additional procedures will be delivered under this phase of the elective boost programme?

Hon SIMEON BROWN: The next phase of the elective boost will see more than 21,000 additional procedures be delivered, bringing the total number of planned elective procedures to over 215,000. There's a significant uplift with hips, knees, and cataract operations, and a major step towards reducing the elective wait list that has left too many New Zealanders waiting in pain for too long. These procedures will be delivered by unlocking capacity in both the public and private sectors. That's why we've signed panel agreements with private hospitals whilst also increasing capacity at Health New Zealand's dedicated elective facilities such as the Manukau Health Park, Tōtara Haumaru, and Burwood Hospital. We're getting on with the job and putting patients first.

Hon David Seymour: Does the Minister subscribe to the philosophy of former Chinese Premier Deng Xiaoping, who said that it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice?

SPEAKER: Well, if—

Hon SIMEON BROWN: Mr Speaker, the—

SPEAKER: No, I'm sorry. If the Minister was some sort of expert in rodent control, that'd be a reasonable question.

Hon SIMEON BROWN: I'm happy to answer the question, or address it.

SPEAKER: No—well, I'm not happy for you to be asked. Dr Carlos Cheung. [Interruption] We're just going to wait.

Dr Carlos Cheung: How will the Government ensure that these procedures are delivered?

Hon SIMEON BROWN: By taking a smart, joined-up approach and working both with the public and private hospitals, we've already shown that elective boost can deliver results. We will continue to do this by unlocking capacity, partnering with private providers in a more strategic way with longer-term contracts, and—most importantly—getting Kiwis the care that they need. By 1 June, more than 12,764 additional procedures have already been delivered through phase one of the boost, far exceeding our target of 10,500 procedures by 30 June. New Zealanders don't care who does the operation; they just want it done.

Dr Carlos Cheung: What else is the Government doing to improve New Zealanders' access to planned care?

Hon SIMEON BROWN: Well, improving access to planned care is a top priority for this Government, and that's why, as part of our record funding boost to general practice, we're supporting GP clinics to deliver minor planned care procedures closer to patients in the community. This will reduce wait times for procedures such as minor gynaecological procedures, skin excisions, iron infusions, and oncology infusions, all whist delivering care closer to home and taking pressure directly off our hospitals. We're turning the system around.

Hon David Seymour: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for my question to be answered, after all.

SPEAKER: Well, I've ruled it out, so—

Hon David Seymour: Well, the House is the master of its own destiny.

SPEAKER: No, no, no—no, not at all. Think about it—have a read of the Standing Orders.

Question No. 7—Health

7. Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour) to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his target that 95 percent of patients will be waiting less than four months for a first specialist appointment?

Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health): Yes, our Government has brought back the health targets because patients deserve faster access to care. That includes our target for 95 percent of patients to receive their first specialist assessment within four months by 2030. The good news is that wait-lists are already improving. The latest data from the Health New Zealand national collections shows the total number of patients waiting has reduced by 2,955 between February and March, and those waiting over four months has also dropped by 2,940 during the same period. This shows that our focus on putting patients first is making a difference. There is still much work to do. Patients have been waiting for far too long, and we will continue to focus on reducing wait-times to ensure that more New Zealanders get the care they need faster.

Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Will he take responsibility for Nelson patients being given appointments that don't exist, with doctors that aren't there, in order to say he's meeting the target?

Hon SIMEON BROWN: That question is just repeating the beat-up from the unions in Nelson, who are trying to politicise an IT system rather than celebrate the fact that all 23 of those patients now have bookings over the next three months and will be seen.

someone object to that while I'm on my feet? The person who did may not get to ask their question if it happens again. We'll start the answer to the question in a reasonable, conversational fashion.

Hon SIMEON BROWN: Well, the question highlights that the Opposition is prioritising politicising an IT system rather than celebrating the fact that all 23 of those patients, who had been waiting over two years for a first specialist assessment, have got their bookings. Their letters were sent on 4 July, and they will have their bookings over the next three months and will get an appointment. I'm focused on getting patients seen; they're focused on politics. It's unacceptable.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Supplementary question?

SPEAKER: Sorry, Mr Peters, we normally go for three from the questioner who has the primary question, so we'll stick to that.

Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Is this what patients can expect under a National Government: a fake doctors visit that they don't even know is happening?

Hon SIMEON BROWN: Well, they all received letters. The letters were sent on 4 July for appointments over the coming three months. This is an Opposition which is politicising an IT system—

SPEAKER: No, that's enough. Sit down.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Supplementary question?

SPEAKER: One more here.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Hang on, that's four.

SPEAKER: No, I'm doing the counting; no one else.

Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: What did he expect would happen when he set a target to increase clinic visits but did not agree to this understaffed hospital having enough doctors?

Hon SIMEON BROWN: There are more doctors and more nurses at Nelson Hospital today than in 2023, when she was the Minister of Health. And, by the way, the people we are prioritising getting appointments over the next three months were people put on the wait-list when she was the Minister.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: How can the Minister possibly accuse the member of repeating the beat-up of the unions when that member wouldn't know a worker if she tripped over them?

SPEAKER: Good, well, perhaps point made, but it's certainly not an answer for the Minister of Health.

Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Has he asked Health New Zealand to explain the obvious falsehood in their response to 1News on this matter: that Nelson's booking system cannot make appointments more than six weeks in advance?

Hon SIMEON BROWN: Well, the system, which was put in place in 2018, when Labour was in Government, has limitations as to how long you can book patients in. What has happened is they have all received letters, with their bookings, over the next three months, and they will be seen. That's my priority, and as I said in answer to the earlier question, these are people who were put on the wait-list when she was the Minister. My focus is on getting these patients seen and off the wait-list so that we can deliver the timely, quality access to healthcare that New Zealanders need.

Question No. 8—Prime Minister

8. Hon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader—Green) to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ngā kōrero me ngā mahi katoa a tōna Kāwanatanga?

[Does he stand by all of his Government's statements and actions?]

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes.

Hon Marama Davidson: Is the Prime Minister concerned that the Christchurch City Mission has reported an upsurge in the number of homeless people in Christchurch, so much so that their emergency shelters are regularly full?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: We're always concerned about people who are without housing, and that's why this Government is doing an incredibly good job of trying to improve the situation that we inherited. It has been excellent to see that rents have come down $5 since we came into power, versus going up $180; it has been amazing and excellent to see that nearly 6,000 people have come off the social housing wait-list; and it's been an outstanding achievement to ensure that we take several thousand people, including 2,100 kids, out of emergency hotel accommodation, and 85 percent of them are now in warm, safe, dry homes. I think all members of this House should celebrate that fact and that progress. That is something that we can all be very proud about because, actually, we are supporting vulnerable people when they need it most.

Hon Marama Davidson: Then, why are homeless pensioners living in cars, vans, and tents in Christchurch's red zone, instead of in emergency or social housing?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I just say to the member: anyone who needs any housing support can come to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) and receive it. But if you think about what was, without doubt, an absolutely failed housing policy under Labour, under the Greens—where house prices went up; rents went up; the social housing wait-list went up from 6,000 to over 25,000, and is now back at 19,308, from memory—we are making progress. The fact that we have taken 2,100 children out of damp, squalid motel rooms—which the previous Government was very happy to throw people into—and we have prioritised them and got them into State houses or community housing providers, is an outstanding result. [Interruption]

Hon Marama Davidson: Then, given—

SPEAKER: Wait, just wait.

Hon Marama Davidson: With the Prime Minister just saying about emergency support housing, does he agree, then, with the executive director of the Christchurch Methodist Mission that "Chris Bishop said in an interview that if people are homeless they could go to the Ministry of Social Development and housing support would be available for them … we know that's not true.", and, if not, why not?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I disagree with the characterisation of that question. Anybody who wants assistance can come to MSD and they will receive it. I will just ask the members to think about it: the legacy on housing of the previous Government was abysmal. We care about vulnerable people. That's why we're fixing the housing mess that we've inherited; rents are down; the social housing wait-list is down; and people are out of emergency housing in warm, dry homes. That's a good outcome. Yes, there's more to do. If people need assistance, that's still available to them. But to have 85 percent of people—85 percent of households—out of emergency hotel accommodation, into warm, dry houses, that's something we should be celebrating.

Hon Kieran McAnulty: You know that isn't the case.

SPEAKER: No, hang on. It's your own side that's making most of the noise. Carry on.

Hon Marama Davidson: Then, why are there more people being rejected for emergency housing support at MSD?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I'd just say to the member: if people are desperately needing support from MSD, it is available. But what I say is we're not going to consign people to motel rooms and have kids raised in motel rooms. We want them in warm, dry homes, and we're making great progress doing that: 86 percent of people taken out of emergency housing are now in proper homes. That's a good thing for them, their families, and those kids.

Hon Marama Davidson: Is the Prime Minister denying, then, that there are 300 people sleeping rough in Christchurch, 653 in Auckland, and 464 in Wellington, on most recent counts, all up since this Government restricted access to emergency housing?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What I can confirm is there is 2,124 children that have been moved out of motels, into homes and houses; what I can confirm is that the average rents across New Zealand are down $5, not up $180 a week as they were under the previous administration; and what I can confirm is that there is now 19,308 people on the social housing wait-list, and that is down from 26,000 under a Labour-Greens Government that didn't care about vulnerable people.

Question No. 9—Local Government

9. NANCY LU (National) to the Minister of Local Government: What recent announcements has he made on getting councils back to basics?

Hon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Local Government): This Government is getting councils back to basics, focusing on the core services Kiwis rely on. Too much ratepayer money is being spent on lower priorities instead of roads, water, waste, and infrastructure. The bill introduced this week—the Local Government (System Improvements) Amendment Bill—restores focus and tightens financial rules. When councils lose focus, rates go up, and that drives up the cost of living. We're putting ratepayers first, and bringing back the discipline needed to deliver results for Kiwis. [Interruption]

SPEAKER: Excuse me. Look, the noise in here is just far too much today, and I would particularly suggest that there is a lot of noise coming from the cross-bench to my left that needs to stop.

Nancy Lu: How will refocusing councils on core services deliver better outcomes for ratepayers?

Hon SIMON WATTS: Well, Kiwis expect their rates to go towards the basics: fixing roads, keeping water running, and collecting the rubbish. Kiwis are frustrated with rising rates, expanding bureaucracy, and poor value for money. This bill makes sure councils focus on what matters most, not on pet projects or distractions. It's about getting the basics right, delivering better services, and ensuring Kiwis get what they pay for.

Nancy Lu: Supplementary.

Hon Member: Libraries. Sports fields.

SPEAKER: Someone is on their feet to ask a question, and someone just called out—second row of the cross-benches.

Nancy Lu: How will the new performance measures improve the quality and consistency of services?

Hon SIMON WATTS: For too long, ratepayers have not been able to see how their council is performing. This bill changes that. We're setting new performance measures requiring councils to publicly report on spending, including what they pay contractors and consultants. This is about transparency, accountability, and giving ratepayers the tools to see where their money is going and whether they're getting value for money.

Nancy Lu: What other steps is the Government taking to lift the performance of local councils and deliver better outcomes for communities?

Hon SIMON WATTS: Well, this Government is tapping the root causes of poor performance, not papering over the cracks. We're looking at tools like rates capping to stop unnecessary increases, and cutting red tape so that councils focus on delivering the basics. This Government is focused on ensuring value for money and better results for local communities.

Question No. 10—Economic Growth

10. Hon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour) to the Minister for Economic Growth: Does she stand by her statement, "I think New Zealanders will judge our government on what we do and what we deliver"; if so, how does she think New Zealanders will judge the Government's ability to deliver jobs, when 47,000 people left New Zealand for Australia last year?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister for Economic Growth): Yes, I stand by that statement. In terms of how New Zealanders will judge the Government's ability to deliver jobs, I would invite them to compare how the actual unemployment rate under this Government compares with what was being forecast would be the case under the previous Government. I can share with the member that the actual numbers of unemployed people have been consistently lower in every quarter under this Government than the previous Government was forecasting would be the case, prior to the election. It is certainly the case that the economy has been through a very tough period, and that is why our Government has been so focused on getting inflation and interest rates under control and encouraging growth and job creation. There is more to be done, but we are taking the right steps.

Hon Ginny Andersen: How can her Government claim it's creating jobs when half of New Zealand households say that work is hard to find?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well, consistent with my answer to the previous question, it has been forecast by Treasury and other economic entities since the last Government was in power that unemployment would be peaking at around this point. What is good news—which the member is yet to reflect on—is that the rate of unemployment is lower than she was forecasting in her Cabinet.

Hon Ginny Andersen: Does she agree with Christopher Luxon, who said, "New Zealand is where the opportunities are—not Australia"; if so, how does she explain the 47,000 New Zealanders who saw no future for themselves here, under her Government?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Yes, I absolutely support the patriotism of the Prime Minister, who has the good sense to say that New Zealanders should pursue their ambitions and aspirations here. If the member takes a different view, that she wants New Zealanders to leave for Australia, then she should ask herself what she's doing in this House because when I come to work each day, I see it as my mission to make sure that this is an economy that does catch up with Australia, that doesn't allow the wealth gap to persist, that actually removes some of the barriers that stop us digging wealth from the ground and that stop us making developments happen, and that doesn't chase talent and capital out the door with new taxes. So, yes, we're on a mission. This is a wonderful country. New Zealanders should stay here because this Government is going to back them to succeed.

Hon Ginny Andersen: Does she agree with the Deputy Prime Minister, David Seymour, in his view that the numbers of New Zealanders leaving is always a bad sign; if not, why not?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Yes, it is always my aspiration that New Zealanders feel they can pursue their ambitions here in New Zealand. What I always take note of is how we compare with Australia, and that's why I was delighted that in the first three months of this year, New Zealand grew four times as fast as Australia. One quarter isn't enough; we need that to occur again and again and again, which is why we are on the mission to ensure this is a better place to do business, a better place to employ people, and a better place to make resources into incomes and opportunities for New Zealanders. The member can be very critical, but I am yet to hear a single idea for how you would make this country better.

SPEAKER: Well, much as things might be better if I did have the opportunity, it's not for me to do that so please be careful of the use of the word "you".

Hon David Seymour: Who would want a Deputy Prime Minister who said that New Zealanders leaving the country was a good sign? Is it possible that would be true if the New Zealander in question was Ginny Andersen?

SPEAKER: No—no answer to that. [Interruption] Just a moment. That's the last warning for the Hon David Seymour. Do not use—[Interruption] Sorry—well, do you want me to not have that? We'll just go straight to: out of the House. Don't use question time to attack the Opposition. It's very clear in the Standing Orders.

Hon Ginny Andersen: Did this Government confuse its "Everyone must go" tourism strategy with its approach to jobs—no work, low pay, and hard-working Kiwis lining up for Australia?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: I'm finding this occupation of the moral high ground rather curious when I note that Statistics New Zealand report that the net migration loss from New Zealand to Australia in 2024 was almost exactly the same as it was in 2023, and I do not recall the member at that time taking responsibility for every New Zealander who chose to pursue their fortunes elsewhere.

Question No. 11—Vocational Education

11. Dr VANESSA WEENINK (National—Banks Peninsula) to the Minister for Vocational Education: What recent actions has the Government taken to restore regional decision-making in vocational education and training?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for Vocational Education): It was clear to us from the start that Labour's mega-merger of all regional polytechnics into one unwieldy national institution simply wouldn't work—and it didn't. So we are breaking it up: from 1 January next year, 10 regional polytechnics will be re-established with their own governance and decision making. We're putting vocational education and training back into the hands of local communities where it belongs, delivering on what we campaigned for and what regional New Zealand has been asking for. This is a major milestone in building a system that is financially sustainable, responsible to employers, and focused on the future.

Dr Vanessa Weenink: What does this mean for the people of Christchurch and Canterbury?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Canterbury's polytechnic, Ara, plays a critical role in supporting Canterbury's strong and diverse economy, particularly in trades, health, engineering, and technology. Restoring local governance puts decision making back in the hands of the region, where communities and industries know best what skills are needed. Returning Ara to local control will ensure it remains agile, practical, and deeply connected to the Canterbury economy and wider regional industries. It puts proud Cantabrians back in charge of shaping their workforce, and it sets Ara up for long-term success, supporting Canterbury as a regional powerhouse. This is great news for Canterbury.

Catherine Wedd: What does this mean for the communities of Hawke's Bay and Tairāwhiti?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: The Eastern Institute of Technology, EIT, has always been a trusted regional provider of skills training, from horticulture and viticulture through to trades, hospitality, business, and nursing. EIT has been something of a poster child for regional polytechnics. Restoring local governance means EIT can reconnect closely with employers, iwi, and communities to make sure training meets the needs of this important region's recovery and growth. After years of uncertainty, the people of Hawke's Bay and Tairāwhiti will once again have a vocational provider they can be proud of.

Tākuta Ferris: Can she guarantee that regional polytechnics and institutes of technology and polytechnics won't be unfairly penalised for any financial underperformance they may experience over the short- to mid-term, as they re-establish themselves as independent regional providers again?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: We have undertaken, over the last year, significant financial work with all of the individual polytechnics to ensure that they have a pathway to financial viability. When they are turned back into regionally run and managed polytechnics, those communities will take responsibility and accountability for ensuring they stay on that pathway and maintain their sustainability.

Stuart Smith: What does this mean for the top of the South Island?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology has been an integral part of the Nelson-Marlborough communities, supporting the marine, aquaculture, viticulture, health, and engineering sectors. Returning it to regional governance means learners in Nelson, Marlborough, and Tasman will once again have a provider that reflects their economy and aspirations. I know that local mayor Nick Smith is delighted with this outcome. It's about backing local decision making and ensuring skills training fits the region's skills, strengths, industries, and future opportunities.

Hon Mark Patterson: Can the Minister confirm the future of the Telford agricultural training facility in Clutha?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: I acknowledge the member's keen support of Telford and New Zealand First's advocacy of Telford. Telford campus, as part of the Southern Institute of Technology, SIT, is one of the 10 polytechnics that will be stood up in 1 January 2026. Telford has a proud history of serving this country's $60 billion primary sector, and with its unique on-farm, practical delivery of agricultural training, it achieves great employment outcomes. I know that the agricultural sector around the country will be delighted that Telford is likely to be the recipient of some of the $20 million strategic fund—

SPEAKER: Yep, good.

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: —that has been reprioritised from back office—

SPEAKER: Good.

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: —into front line, and we're proud to support Telford.

SPEAKER: I think I should put a price on advertorials.

Question No. 12—Housing

12. Hon PEENI HENARE (Labour) to the Associate Minister of Housing: Has the number of people sleeping rough, as defined by the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, increased since he became Associate Minister of Housing?

Hon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing): Rough sleepers are a subset of those Kiwis unfortunately living without shelter in the census. Now, the number of rough sleepers increased between Census 2018 and 2023 and there's no current single source of data for the number of rough sleepers as of today. Anecdotal reports and comments in this House and, actually, from some providers in some locations observe an increase in rough sleeping, but also acknowledge that there are various potential contributing causes for any changes: the cost of living, economy, mental health, and of course the lack of prudent spending by previous Governments. That's why I'm supportive of the exemplary Going for Housing Growth mahi that is being led by Minister Bishop to ensure that more of the right houses in the right places are built for Kiwis in need.

Hon Peeni Henare: Can he explain why homelessness in Tāmaki Makaurau rose almost 150 percent in just three months, as reported in the December 2024 insights report?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: I cannot recall that data point being referenced to me as a single source of truth data point. There may be some anecdotal reports in relation to that number, but what I can say is this: homelessness is something that continues to confront many, many Kiwis, and this Government is absolutely supportive of an intention to ensure more houses, the right type and the right place, are built for Kiwis in need.

Hon Peeni Henare: How can he justify cuts to emergency housing when Māori in Tāmaki Makaurau make up 50 percent of those in need?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: I am unaware of any cuts to emergency housing. What I am aware of is there is absolute clarification of what is a genuine need for a short-term stay in temporary accommodation, and I'm very proud to say that in addition to the 2,125 children that have left emergency housing, expedited under priority 1, there's an additional 1,000 children as well—so over 3,000 children have left emergency housing and the dank, dark, nefarious places that were, of course, supported by the previous Government.

Hon Peeni Henare: Does he believe he's making New Zealand a better place for rangatahi to live, given that about half the homeless population that have risen under his watch are under the age of 25?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: I can confidently and proudly say that we are making Aotearoa New Zealand a better place to live for the over 3,000 kids that have come out of those dark, catastrophic emergency motels and hotels since this Government came into administration.

Hon Peeni Henare: Why does he still refuse to admit that homelessness and rough sleeping has increased under his watch, when his own official documents show a significant increase in homelessness and sleeping rough since he became Minister—an increase which front-line providers attribute to his policies directly?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: What we have seen in various homelessness insights reports is that there is not one single cause for any reported rises in homelessness—whether or not that be rough sleeping or sleeping in cars. What we also note is that there is a serious cost of living and economic crisis that is confronting a number of towns and cities in this country. That's why I stand here behind the Minister of Finance to support what she's doing to get this economy back on track and actually build more houses for Kiwis that are in genuine need.

SPEAKER: That concludes oral questions. There will be members who need to leave the House for other business. Could they do so quickly, quietly, and without conversation on the way.

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