Secretary Clinton Speaks with NPR's Northam
Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:21:29 -0600
Interview With Jackie
Northam of NPR
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of
State
Fairmont Hotel
Cairo, Egypt
November 4,
2009
QUESTION: Secretary Clinton’s trip was
initially intended to shore up American credentials in
Pakistan, but a Middle Eastern leg was added to her tour and
ended up becoming the focus of her week overseas. I spoke
with her shortly before she was to meet with Egyptian
President Hosni Mubarak.
Madame Secretary, thank you
very much for taking the time.
SECRETARY CLINTON:
Thank you.
QUESTION: You’re here in Cairo and about
to meet with President Mubarak. Even though you started in
Pakistan, most of your nine-day trip has been spent focusing
on the Middle East. Now, as you’re about to head back
home, do you feel that you have made any progress in that
area? Do you feel that you’ve been able to nudge the
Israelis and the Palestinians a little bit closer to the
negotiating table?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, Jackie, I
think that I had always intended to end in Morocco for the
Forum for the Future and meet with my Middle Eastern and
Arab counterparts. And it was, I think, a good opportunity,
since I was in the region, to visit in depth with both
Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and Palestinian President
Abbas, as well as others who have been involved in this
effort from around the region.
I think it’s
important to just put this in a broader perspective. The
President always knew that this would be hard, and is
committed and is absolutely determined that the United
States will stay very involved and working to bring the
parties together. Our goal is to re-launch negotiations as
soon as practical. And on the way to that, we’re going to
keep talking and listening and encouraging and prodding,
because I’ve been around this issue in a very close and
personal way for, gosh, 16 years now. And I know that when
the United States leaves the field and basically says,
“Well, the parties have to work this out themselves,” we
don’t get the kind of forward movement that we think is
necessary.
QUESTION: Great, thank you. If you were
able to convince both sides to at least take a couple steps
forward and sit at that table and restart the peace
negotiations, wouldn’t Palestinian Authority President
Mahmoud Abbas look weaker than ever?
SECRETARY
CLINTON: Well, I don’t think so, but of course, what
matters is not what I think, but what he thinks. And
there’s been a sequence of actions which have complicated
the effort for him. I, however, believe that getting into
negotiations, having his negotiators discuss with the
Israeli negotiators what are called the final status issues,
which President Obama listed in his United Nations speech in
September in New York – everything from borders to
Jerusalem to refugees – has to be resolved between the
parties.
So I think his getting into negotiations
would actually change the dynamic and give him a very strong
platform. But for all kinds of reasons, most particularly
his willingness to work with the Israeli Government to
postpone the so-called Goldstone report, has made it very
difficult for him to go forward at this
time.
QUESTION: Okay. Just to switch gears a bit, you
spent a lot of time explaining to Arab states and others
over the past few days what you meant in Jerusalem when you
were talking about the Israeli West Bank settlements. And
your comments were viewed by quite a number of people as
praising Israel’s proposal to slow rather than halt the
construction. And yesterday, you acknowledged that perhaps
you should have been a bit more clear when you were
explaining President Obama’s policies on that.
How
much of a problem did your comments in Jerusalem
create?
SECRETARY CLINTON: I don’t think it created
a long-term problem, but it certainly created a lot of
questions. And the reason is because President Obama has
tried to do something which no previous American president,
including my husband, tried to do, which was to make
absolutely clear what has been American policy for 40 years
– namely that we view Israeli settlement activity as not
legitimate. We think that their changing the facts on the
ground, so to speak, is something that should be ended.
So when President Obama said look, we want to see an
end to settlement activity, that was unprecedented. And then
when the Israeli Government, under this prime minister, said
we will agree to end all new settlement activity, that was
really unprecedented as well.
I have taken the
position that when the Israelis or when the Palestinians
make a positive step, they should be encouraged, so that –
I have said to the Israelis, I’ve said publicly and
privately that the Palestinians have made real progress on
security, something which people did not expect, and to this
day, a lot of people don’t give enough credit to. So I
think my job is to try to keep people focused on what is
actually both possible and positive. And the Israeli offer
was not at all what we would prefer. It did not go far
enough, but it went further than anybody has
before.
QUESTION: Were you surprised at the – how
big a stir that created, though?
SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, no, I’m not surprised by anything – (laughter) –
because this is the tightrope of all tightropes, and I’m
well aware of that. But I also think it’s important to
make the case. Settlements have never been a precondition by
anyone – Palestinian or Arab or the United States – to
getting into negotiations, because what is so clear is that
once borders are decided, the settlement issue goes away.
The Israelis build whatever they want in their territory,
the Palestinians build whatever they want in
theirs.
But what President Obama tried to do was to
say look, this is such an irritant, it is such a terribly
– it’s a terrible flashpoint for people in the region.
And I was surprised that the Israelis went as far as they
did. The Arabs and the Palestinians said it wasn’t far
enough. I understand both sides.
QUESTION: Just a
couple more questions if you don’t mind, if we could just
switch over to Pakistan. And again, you spent time earlier
on this trip explaining comments that you made in Pakistan
as well, that al-Qaida had been in there since 2002, and
that you found it hard to believe that no one in the
government there knew where al-Qaida leaders were, and also
– al-Qaida leaders were and couldn’t get them if they
really wanted to.
Can I ask you, was that just –
were those just spontaneous remarks or was that
--
SECRETARY CLINTON: No, not at all, no. I mean, as
you saw, the whole purpose of my trip was to try to clear
the air with the Pakistani people and government, to
reassert our support for Pakistan, particularly in this very
difficult conflict they’re engaged in with the Taliban,
and to listen and absorb all the criticisms they have. They
had this sort of pent-up frustration with the United States.
And as you know and as you saw, I listened and under – and
tried to convey understanding of all of their questions
about our policy, going back years.
But at the same
time, I wanted to stress that we’re looking for a
partnership, and they have to listen to our concerns as well
as we listen to their concerns. I feel strongly that as we
move forward in these very complex areas that pose real
concerns to our national security, concerns to partners like
Pakistan’s security, that it is important to make clear to
the people – not just the leaders – that we have to
speak openly with each other.
And the reaction that I
got in Pakistan was overwhelmingly positive – and I’ve
been reading a lot of the blogging and the reaction on the
press – in part because they’re not used to anyone from
the United States Government coming and opening herself to
their concerns. They’re just used to saying – to having
somebody say, take it or leave it, with us or against us, go
forward or not. And so I think we’re building a stronger
base for our relationship.
QUESTION: I have just one
last question We’ve seen Hamid Karzai be declared the
winner of Afghanistan’s presidential elections while you
were on this trip. There have long been concerns about his
credibility and whether he can be counted upon as an ally of
the U.S. And now that he has been reelected, is the Obama
Administration more confident now that it can depend on him
as a reliable ally, or is this sort of a wait-and-see
situation?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I spoke with
President Karzai after the election results were announced.
And I told him that we now had a lot of work to do, and
there were expectations on both sides. But certainly, from
the American perspective, we believed it was important for
him to establish a compact with the people of Afghanistan
that would commit him and his new government to an
anti-corruption campaign, to more accountability and
transparency, to a recognition that there has to be more
cooperation with local officials, that they have to work
with us to build an adequate Afghan security force to
protect and defend their country.
So we are laying out
very clear expectations. We’re willing to offer our
assistance, but we’re going to hold the Government of
Afghanistan accountable for what they claim they want, which
is the United States and the international community’s
assistance in providing security for their people and in
producing results for them as well.
QUESTION: Does he
appear to be on board with all these initiatives that the
--
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, he certainly – he and I
have a long relationship, and I have met with him many times
over the last eight years, both in Afghanistan, in
Washington, even in New York when he came to visit Fort Drum
in upstate New York, where a lot of the soldiers who were
part of the first wave of the invasion against the Taliban
and al-Qaida in 2001 were based.
So he and I know each
other. I have been waiting for the election, frankly, to
finally be over. It has caused a delay in our policy,
because how do you decide on important matters that are
going to depend upon whatever agreements you make with the
government until you finally get a result? So that is,
thankfully, over. And our people, both Ambassador Holbrooke
and Ambassador Eikenberry and the people working with them,
are working to implement what we see as the necessary
assurances we require from him.
QUESTION: Secretary of
State Clinton, thank you very much.
SECRETARY CLINTON:
Thank you, Jackie. Good to talk with
you.
ENDS