Sitting date: 13 August 2025

ORAL QUESTIONS

QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS

Question No. 1—Education

1. HANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te Pāti Māori—Hauraki-Waikato) to the Minister of Education: What Māori education providers has she consulted with, if any, regarding the impact her proposed education changes will have on all Māori learners across Aotearoa?

Hon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education): My proposed education changes include the introduction of Rangaranga Reo ā-Tā, a new structured programme to teach reading, writing, and speaking, including a suite of decodable books. For the first time ever, we've printed and made freely available the introduction of Hihira Weteoro, the first ever phonics check in te reo Māori, new pāngarau maths resources including professional learning and development teacher guides and practical resources, and the refresh of Te Marautanga o Aotearoa to be a knowledge rich year-by-year curriculum in te reo Māori. And across my education reform programme, I regularly engage with my Māori education advisory group and Māori education leaders regarding kaupapa Māori. The Ministry of Education engages with a range of experts in Rangaranga Reo ā-Tā, pāngarau, aromatawai, and curriculum development—all of this because I have high aspirations for the success of Māori learners in all parts of our education system.

Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke: Does she agree with Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori o Aotearoa that replacing NCEA level 1 with a Foundational Award in literacy and numeracy "narrows the purpose of learning and risks disengaging students who benefit from a broader kaupapa Māori programme."?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: I don't, and I think the important thing to note is the Education Review Office report which said that 60 percent of teachers did not see value in NCEA level 1, that 70 percent of employers did not value it, and that half of parents didn't understand it. Now, if that's the award we want to give to Māori learners to set them up for success, then that's not being aspirational enough. A Foundational Award in literacy and numeracy and a whole year of learning through a deep curriculum to make sure that they go into Year 12 ready for learning for that first important year of national qualifications is going to set them up for success.

Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke: Why has she decided to prioritise standardisation over cultural relevance when kura kaupapa providers have warned that this approach is not fit for purpose for kura kaupapa?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: Look, we have already started and are going to continue to work with Te Rūnanga Nui and Ngā Kura ā Iwi and the kura kaupapa leaders to make sure that they have their say in this process. We've already set up meetings, we've already had initial conversations, and I would also like to point out that there was a principal from Ngā Kura ā Iwi and a principal from Te Rūnanga Nui on the professional advisory group that was helping to set this up.

Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke: Supplementary? [Interruption]

SPEAKER: There will be silence while questions are being asked.

Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke: How will her decision to ban nearly all Māori words from junior teaching resources impact the Crown's responsibility to actively protect and promote te reo Māori?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: I take that responsibility very seriously, which is why we produced the first ever set of Rangaranga Reo ā-Tā, structured literacy books, in te reo Māori. No Government has ever done that before. Let me be clear. These are the very first books that are tools to teach children to learn English. The Māori words in them will remain. In the new books that will round out the series, a dozen or so that still need to be produced, will still contain Māori words, and to say they're being banned is absolutely wrong.

Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke: Does the Minister support the establishment of a rigorous, culturally grounded assessment framework consistent with the proven strengths of kura kaupapa Māori?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: In answer to that question, we have just recently procured a new aromatawai or assessment tool. Now, that assessment tool next year will be required twice yearly to measure progress, to measure progress from Year 3 all the way up. It will also be provided in te reo Māori as well, to measure progress of Māori students not only in the mainstream but also in those Māori medium classrooms to make sure their learning is on track, to make sure their parents can see their progress, but, more importantly, for the Government and the Minister of Education to know where to put resource when those young people start to fall behind. Because we know that they are falling behind and if we do nothing, like the previous Government, then we end up with children who don't get qualifications.

Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke: Will she commit to extending the consultation time line in line with calls from kura kaupapa providers to ensure that ākonga Māori are not left behind by her education reforms?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: We have been in the washing machine of change at least for the last five years. We have got to make change. I've already committed, as has the ministry, to dealing with Ngā Kura Iwi and Te Rūnanga Nui in a special and different way, where we hold constant meetings and receive their feedback on a different path than the mainstream consultation progress. We will continue to work collaboratively with them, but we are not slowing down our reforms, because our young people deserve a qualification that sets them up for success and NCEA does not do that. And if the member would like a briefing, I'd be happy to offer that to her. [Interruption]

SPEAKER: Question No. 2, when the House is quiet.

Question No. 2—Finance

2. NANCY LU (National) to the Minister of Finance: What reports has she seen on New Zealand's fiscal policy and tax settings?

Hon CHRIS BISHOP (Acting Minister of Finance): I've been reading some more of Treasury's long-term insights briefing, which highlights the dangers of excessive Government spending. I have seen some commentary that this report is "Treasury spin", that other countries spent similar amounts responding to COVID, and that Treasury has mischaracterised some of the spending. Let's be clear: this is a 118 page serious report; it deals with evidence from the IMF and the OECD. Amongst advanced economies, in response to COVID, only the United States spent more as a percentage of GDP. And the Treasury did not mischaracterise previous Government spending. Page 49 contains a list of how all the COVID funds were spent, where nearly half of the response was made up of "a wide range of initiatives with varied objectives", including tax changes, training schemes, Jobs for Nature, and alleged shovel-ready infrastructure.

Nancy Lu: What plans has she seen on getting the Government's books back in order?

Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well, partly as a response to the issues outlined in the 2025 long-term insights briefing, this Government has to provide disciplined economic and fiscal management in order to get the Government's books back in order—ultimately, less debt, restoring our fiscal buffers, and making sure we can incentivise investment and growth and get red tape out of the economy. Budget 2025 shows our fiscal deficits turn to surplus in 2028-2029.

Nancy Lu: Can she rule out a capital gains tax on the family home?

Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well, on behalf of the Government, yes I can rule out a capital gains tax on the family home, and it would be good if all members of Parliament could provide that assurance.

Nancy Lu: What reports has she seen on the potential revenue generated from a capital gains tax?

Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well, I have seen reports from some that a capital gains tax could bring in $200 billion in just six years—$33 billion per year. To quote Brad Olsen from Infometrics, this is "Absolutely daft". I've also seen a report from the Tax Working Group—2019—which estimated that a capital gains tax would realise just $400 million in its first year. But the salient point is this: a capital gains tax is a tax on savings and investment, and a capital-shallow—

Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Why are you still talking when you just said you ruled it out?

Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well, I'm talking about it because you're about to adopt it—

SPEAKER: No, no—no, you're not to reply.

Hon CHRIS BISHOP: —as Opposition policy.

SPEAKER: Do not reply across the House; stick to your answer.

Hon CHRIS BISHOP: I'm talking about it, Mr Speaker, because the Opposition is about to adopt it as Opposition policy.

SPEAKER: No, no—that's it. No, the member will resume his seat.

Question No. 3—Prime Minister

3. Rt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government's statements and actions?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Why does he stand by his Government's decision to cut State house builds by 86 percent given construction leaders have stated that house construction is an anchor for the sector, and is that why 755 construction firms have collapsed in just one year under his leadership?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, the reason that the construction industry is doing it incredibly tough isn't because of Kāinga Ora, it's because interest rates skyrocketed under the previous administration, as my colleague just alluded to. The previous Government spent $66 billion, created high inflation and, as a result, created high interest rates. The construction industry is required to go out and actually borrow money at higher interest rates. That makes it difficult to do projects and that's the reason the construction industry has been doing it tough. But, of course, we are building things and getting things done in this Government and that will help construction.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does he accept that a lack of Government work has contributed to a 48 percent rise in construction firm liquidations and to 18,000 fewer jobs in construction today than when he became Prime Minister?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I'm actually proud that we've got an infrastructure pipeline now of $207 billion. I think we have $125 billion of projects under construction. We have announced another $6 billion of infrastructure projects to be built or commenced before Christmas. And I'd just say the track record on this side of the House is we don't have phantom projects like three waters at $1.2 billion; we don't have $300 million Auckland light rail projects and we don't have harbour crossings that never come to fruition. [Interruption]

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Supplementary question.

SPEAKER: Just wait till the House and his own members calm themselves down.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: So will the $6 billion of projects that he claims are going to be starting before Christmas result in Government spending on infrastructure in 2026 being more or less than it was in 2023?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, the way I can answer the member is by saying our pipeline has continued to strengthen through the course of this Government. We now have $207 billion worth of infrastructure. I would highlight to the member that a number of those projects that we are getting going on before Christmas were actually either cancelled by the previous administration—I think about the projects that are happening at Auckland Middlemore Hospital: recladding projects announced in 2018, and this is Government's going to get on and do it.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a relatively simple question as to whether in 2026 the Government's going to be spending more or less than it did in 2023. The Prime Minister didn't address that.

SPEAKER: The Prime Minister might like to add to his answer.

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: As I said to the member, the pipeline of infrastructure projects has been increasing under this Government. It's at $207 billion. We've got $125 billion under construction now, and you heard us announce that we want to get $6 billion worth of infrastructure projects up and running before Christmas.

Hon David Seymour: Is the Government's goal to spend more money as an end in itself or to build the infrastructure New Zealanders need more efficiently by replicating, reducing costs where necessary, and getting the job done?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I think that member raises a very good point, because the thing I would like to highlight to the House is that the Minister of Education has done an exceptionally good job. When we came to Government, only 20 percent of classrooms were standardised. They were running at a $1.2 billion cost per classroom. Today, this year, it's running at closer to 70 percent standardised and about $620,000. Of course, that means we've had a 30 percent increase in classrooms going out into the education sector, with the same amount of money essentially being spent. This is a Government that understands management. It understands how to run an economy. It understands how to get things done. We don't just crash an economy, don't deliver, and then have no plan.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: So will the Government be spending more on infrastructure in 2026 or less than it did in 2023?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: As I said in my earlier answer, I can encourage the member that we have strengthened our infrastructure pipeline to now sit at $207 billion. We have $125 billion under construction, $6 billion before Christmas. And I'd just say to that member, I'd really love his support in supporting the construction industry because I think it would be very important for him to reverse his decision on fast track so that we can actually get more projects up and running in a way like the $200 million at the Auckland wharf. That's going to create more jobs and more opportunities for New Zealanders. So why don't you come on board and support us?

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. My question wasn't about the long-term infrastructure pipeline. It wasn't about the fast track. It was about whether or not this Government, based on the plans that it has announced, is going to be spending more or less in 2026 than it did in 2023. I've had two goes at asking the Prime Minister that question, and he hasn't answered on either occasion.

SPEAKER: Well, you're asking for a yes or no answer, which is not, in my opinion—and it's my opinion that really guides how we go from here for a yes or no question. But having asked a question that you've asked twice, you've reached your own conclusion. Do you have another supplementary?

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Will he admit that putting existing transport projects on hold straight after the election has had a chilling effect on the sector, increasing uncertainty and stopping work?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: No. What I would say is that when the previous Government cancelled Ōtaki to Levin in 2018, reannounced it in 2020, and then did nothing, we're actually building it. When you cancelled Melling in 2018 and reannounced it in 2020, we're now getting it going. When it was announced by the previous Government, in 2028, that recladding Middlemore Hospital is very important, and did nothing for six years, we're doing it. When you spend $1.2 billion looking at three-waters and don't do anything, that's not good enough. We're getting things built.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Is the former chief executive of construction firm Naylor Love wrong when he says that further stimulus is needed from the Government "otherwise, we're going to see … continuing downturn in [the] construction industry, more people losing jobs, and more misery."?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I'd just say to the member, again, is that in my conversations with people in the construction sector, they're very conscious that poor economic management from the previous administration created high interest rates, and interest rates are critical for developments to happen. This is a Government that has got $6 billion worth of infrastructure happening and commencing before Christmas. That's a good thing.

Hon Chris Bishop: Can the Prime Minister confirm that cancelling projects due to start in the 2030s may have resulted in a few people working on business cases losing their jobs but has not meant anyone who actually works with a spade and builds things will be out of work?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: That that is correct. But I'd also say to the member that the thing that will help the construction industry tremendously will be lower interest rates, and that's what this Government has delivered. We have not delivered 12 interest-rate increases, as the previous administration had done. We have delivered interest rate cuts, and that will encourage our construction industry to be able to get going and to borrow money to get projects built.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: If he thinks that his FamilyBoost policy is such a "simple process", as he said yesterday, why can't he point towards a single family that's received the $250 a fortnight that he promised them?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I just want to thank the member for his question because every time he draws attention to FamilyBoost, we appreciate it, because we want 22,000 more families to actually sign up for FamilyBoost. That's why we've expanded the thresholds, that's why we've expanded the contributions that are being made, and I encourage everyone to do it.

Hon Marama Davidson: Supplementary. [Interruption]

SPEAKER: When are we ready? The Hon Marama Davidson.

Hon Marama Davidson: Why should New Zealanders have faith in his "process" to decide on Palestinian Statehood if he isn't being briefed on the thousands of Palestinian hostages being held by Israel or the multiple offers to return Israeli hostages for a lasting ceasefire?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, sorry, in answer to the second leg of the question: I'm not aware of that. We have been calling for Hamas to release hostages immediately. What happened on 7 October was abhorrent—1,200 innocent people killed and hostages still being held in very cruel conditions is unacceptable. We have consistently called for the release of those hostages. We've consistently called for humanitarian assistance—unfettered—to go from Israel into Gaza, and we consistently call for a ceasefire.

Hon Marama Davidson: Then has the Prime Minister even asked any questions of his officials about the thousands of Palestinian hostages held by Israel or the multiple offers to release Israeli hostages since he revealed yesterday, and today, that he hasn't been briefed on those issues?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I've been briefed on the situation in Israel and Gaza regularly and continue to be so. It is an absolutely human catastrophe, what we are seeing—everybody acknowledges that. We have actually foreshadowed, to people over the course of this week, that we are in the process of weighing up our position, and we will announce our Cabinet position on that in September.

Hon Marama Davidson: Is New Zealand's independent foreign policy on Gaza more aligned with the foreign-policy agenda of the Trump administration or that of Australia, the UK, France, and Canada?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, this is a Government that has its own independent foreign policy. We work with like-minded countries, as we have done on this particular conflict over its duration, and will continue to do so. As you will have noticed, with respect to the topic of Palestinian recognition, countries have worked their way through their own positions, as you've seen recently with France, Britain, and, also, recently, Australia. Some of our partners have made that decision, others have not.

SPEAKER: There were members in the Government backbenches who were speaking during a question being asked—it's a very risky thing to do.

Hon Marama Davidson: Does he agree that Benjamin Netanyahu has "lost the plot"; and if so, when will he sanction Israel?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, again, those were comments that I made about my personal observations of Israel attacking Gaza City overnight, which was utterly, utterly unacceptable. It's what the global community has called for for a long time—New Zealand has called for for a long time, with its partners—to say, "Israel, you need to be listening to the global community", and that has not been happening. So I stand by those statements.

Question No. 4 to Prime Minister

Question Not Asked.

Question No. 5—Immigration

5 GRANT McCALLUM (National—Northland) to the Minister of Immigration: What recent announcements has she made about supporting businesses to access seasonal workers?

Hon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Immigration): I recently announced that the Government is introducing two new seasonal visa pathways to help businesses access the surge support they need during peak times. The Peak Seasonal Visa is up to a seven-month visa for short-term seasonal roles such as wool handling and meat processing. The Global Workforce Seasonal Visa is a multiple-entry, three-year visa for highly skilled workers in roles such as winemaking, snow instruction, and sheep scanning. The success of our seasonal industries is crucial for growing the economy, which is why we are backing industry.

Grant McCallum: How will these visas help to grow the economy?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: Well, businesses with seasonal peaks need certainty they'll be able to access the workers they need during critical times, to get products to export, and meet the demand for roles such as snow instructors and adventure tourism guides. While employing New Zealanders is always our top priority, these visas will help our industries fill roles that are currently difficult to staff locally, as well as make it easier for employers to retain highly skilled, specialist workers across multiple seasons. For the Peak Seasonal Visa, businesses will still have to advertise their jobs locally and engage with Ministry of Social Development (MSD) to ensure New Zealand workers have first opportunity.

Grant McCallum: What feedback has she received from the primary industry, on this announcement?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: Federated Farmers have welcomed the changes, saying that these visas will make a huge difference to the agricultural sector. Immigration spokesperson Karl Dean said, "It's awesome, because it's the training and getting people used to your processes, your health and safety, the farms you deal with, is what does cost a business.", and Meat Industry Association Chief Executive Sirma Karapeeva said, "Improving the ability to employ migrant workers on a seasonal visa means meat processors can ensure shifts run at maximum capacity on a regular basis. This results in more sustainable employment and income for New Zealanders employed by the sector."

Grant McCallum: What feedback has she received from the tourism industry on this announcement?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: Lake Wānaka Tourism and Destination Queenstown Chief executive Mat Woods said that the new visa is great news for Wānaka and Queenstown tourism operators. It will help create more consistency and less disruption across the tourism sector, ensuring visitors can enjoy world class experiences across all four seasons. Cardrona and Treble Cone Chief Mountain Officer Laura Hedley said that the visa will provide greater confidence for the Aotearoa ski industry, and many of its key staff. This new visa pathway gives both them and us more certainty, and we welcome the change.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Does the Minister agree that the reason why the seasonal workers scheme has lasted was because it was a brilliant piece of economic logic started in 2007?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: I agree with Mr Peters.

SPEAKER: That was an advertorial for New Zealand First.

Question No. 6—Energy

6. Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour—Wigram) to the Minister for Energy: Does he agree with the chief executive officer of Consumer NZ and the managing director of Simplicity, in the Protecting industry, jobs and household budgets as the gas runs out report, that accelerating heat pump adoption will reduce reliance on gas, protect jobs, improve public health, and lower energy costs for New Zealand families and businesses?

Hon SIMON WATTS (Minister for Energy): Yes, I agree that accelerating the uptake of efficient heating is vital for Kiwi families. That's why I was pleased to announce the expansion of the Warmer Kiwi Homes programme last week. This will make an additional 300,000 more households eligible for support, including for heat pump installations. That's an additional 300,000 households who could potentially save up to $340 a year. This expansion, along with the Government's other work, will help more New Zealanders enjoy warmer, healthier homes and lower energy costs.

Hon Dr Megan Woods: Will he then reinstate the over $100 million cut from the Warmer Kiwi Homes programme in Budget 2024 to convert households to heat pumps for room and hot water heating, given the report shows these measures could save households up to $1.5 billion annually in energy bills?

Hon SIMON WATTS: Budget 2025 refocused the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA) budget to deliver value for money and align this with Government priorities of secure, affordable energy. We've brought it back to core priorities like insulation, efficient heating, and technology that reduces bills and strengthens energy security. And we're getting better results for less money. The reality is that this programme has been in place since 2009 and the Warmer Kiwi Homes programme has already had good progress with over half a million installations and heating retrofits across this country. We are now expanding the reach of this programme to provide more opportunities to more middle-income households so that they can benefit too. The Government is still committed to accessing hard-to-reach households.

Hon Dr Megan Woods: Has the Minister seen the advice, given with decisions in Budget 2024, that the changes he has made to the Warmer Kiwi Homes programme will result in less homes being retrofitted and/or households needing to contribute more to access support?

Hon SIMON WATTS: This Government is focused on tackling the cost of living and keeping electricity prices under control. The first thing that we did as a Government is undo those reckless policies from the last Government that pushed up prices and scared off investment. This sector is now delivering market-led solutions including demand response deals and long-term supply agreements. We strongly support this approach because it delivers results and lowers prices for Kiwis.

Hon Dr Megan Woods: Point of Order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister a very straight question about whether he'd seen a specific set of advice, accompanying Budget 2024 decision-making, that the choices the Government was making would result in fewer homes having access to insulation. The Minister did not address that in his answer.

SPEAKER: He surely covered it in earlier answers, but the Minister might want to say something further.

Hon Simon Watts: Well, if the member wants to know why New Zealand / Kiwi households are paying more for electricity and why New Zealand businesses are running out of gas, she doesn't need an oral question; she needs a mirror.

SPEAKER: No. No, no. The Minister will stand and withdraw that comment.

Hon Simon Watts: I withdraw and apologise.

Hon Dr Megan Woods: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I'm still none the wiser whether or not that Minister has seen that piece of advice.

SPEAKER: I know, but you can't appeal to me for that, surely, Doctor.

Hon Dr Megan Woods: Well, I am appealing to you, Mr Speaker.

SPEAKER: No, look, the Minister has answered your question twice. If you were talking about wanting him to respond to a Budget that's over 12 months old, where it's superseded by another Budget, and then, as he has told the House this afternoon, an announcement made just a couple of days ago.

Hon Dr Megan Woods: How much new money, since 2023, has gone into the Warmer Kiwi Homes programme, or is he just spreading an already reduced amount of money, allocated by Labour in 2023, even thinner?

Hon SIMON WATTS: I have already answered this question. As I have said, we have refocused EECA's priorities to deliver more value for money. We are ensuring that that programme delivers outcomes, and, as a result of those decisions, we have expanded the reach of that programme to more than 300,000 additional Kiwi households. This programme has been under way since 2009—half a million installations. We have predominantly dealt with the very difficult homes, and we are now expanding that to more middle-income households in this country, and that is a positive step.

Hon Dr Megan Woods: Will he reinstate the $40 million cut from the commercial buildings initiative in the 2023 mini-Budget to partner with industry to replace fossil fuel boilers used for space and water heating with more energy-efficient technologies, such as hot water heat pumps, given that the report shows policies such as this can lead to more security in our energy supply and prevent further job losses?

Hon SIMON WATTS: I thank the member for that patsy, and I will remind the member of the great policy that this Government announced at the Budget: Investment Boost. Investment Boost allows a 20 percent upfront reduction in year 1 on heat pumps for commercial buildings. This Government is doing everything it can to increase the uptake of efficiency options for businesses and households, and that is a great example of a policy that this Government has done. It's also a recommendation in the report that the member asked in her oral question.

Hon Dr Megan Woods: Isn't it the case that cuts in the energy portfolio from his Government are making things worse, costing jobs, and leaving New Zealand without a plan as the gas runs out?

Hon SIMON WATTS: I want to be very upfront with New Zealanders in regards to the challenges they face with energy. Energy prices in this country are higher than where they need to be. Gas is running out faster than what we expected. The result of those outcomes is because of decisions made by prior Governments, but this Government is not standing by and doing nothing. We are taking leadership, we have announced initiatives, including the $200 million investment in order to increase oil and gas, which is critical to burn electricity, and we're delivering a variety of other mechanisms. The member needs to understand that.

Hon Shane Jones: Is it not the case—on the matter of industry, jobs, household budgets, as the gas runs out—this is a situation worsened by the Labour Party imposing the oil and gas ban?

Hon SIMON WATTS: As I said, we need to be upfront with New Zealanders—

Hon Kieran McAnulty: Point of order. It's difficult to understand how—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: Sorry, there are a number of conversations going on that need to stop while a point of order is being taken.

Hon Kieran McAnulty: It's difficult to understand given your very clear direction to this House that questions between Government parties should not be used to make commentary on policies of other parties and previous Governments. Clearly, when a question includes both the name of a political party and a policy, it is intended to breach that ruling.

SPEAKER: No, I didn't take it that way. As the member will know, the Standing Orders and Speakers' rulings do allow Ministers to refer to circumstances that they are dealing with that may have resulted from the actions of a previous Government. That's been the case for a very long time, but I would advise the Minister to reply briefly and succinctly.

Hon Shane Jones: Speaking to the point of order—thank you, Mr Speaker—I would remind you that the former energy Minister invoked the name of the Labour Party and invited a Government Minister to respond to decisions made by so-said Labour Party. What's good for the goose is equally for the gander.

SPEAKER: Yes, it's a bit hard to work out who's who.

Hon SIMON WATTS: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. The oil and gas ban sent a chilling effect to the market. It signalled real sovereign risk for the first time in decades. That risk has been priced in—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: Sorry, just calm it down. All the heckling across the House won't change the answers.

Hon Kieran McAnulty: Point of order. How can you expect there to be order in this House when you've allowed this question to go forward and immediately the Minister is providing his opinion and commentary on what he believes has happened, none of which is backed up by fact. And the exact thing—

SPEAKER: With all due respect, he spoke about sovereign risk, which is regularly reported to energy Ministers. Further, it was the questioner asking the question who asked him to comment on former Labour policy. It's a highly political question; you're going to get these sorts of responses.

Hon Kieran McAnulty: Further to the point of order, this is a question from a Government party, and you will not find any of the commentary used by the Minister in any of the reports mentioned by the Hon Dr Megan Woods. That is an expression of this Minister's opinion and is the exact kind of thing I was trying to prevent with my first point of order.

SPEAKER: All answers, ultimately, are going to be expressions of opinion by a Minister. That's why they're Ministers. Try again, and try to keep it very factual.

Hon SIMON WATTS: Thank you. The oil and gas ban sent a chilling effect to the market. It signalled real sovereign risk—

Hon Dr Megan Woods: What did this report say?

SPEAKER: Start again. Leave the words "chilling effect" out. It won't interfere with your answer, but just give your answer.

Hon SIMON WATTS: It signalled real sovereign risk for the first time in decades. That risk has been priced in by the market and passed on to New Zealand consumers. The reversal of the ban gives industry the certainty to invest in the gas we need for dry years and industrial heat while new generation comes on line. This Government supports the transition to renewables, but we will not risk energy shortages and skyrocketing prices through reckless virtue-signalling policy.

Question No. 7—Children

7. LAURA McCLURE (ACT) to the Minister for Children: What recent announcements has she made about improving the experiences of Oranga Tamariki caregivers?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children): I want to ensure all caregivers feel supported and valued so that they can provide the best possible care for the children and young people they've opened their homes to. Since becoming Minister, I've asked Oranga Tamariki to progress work on a caregiver work programme focused on upholding rights and responsibilities of caregivers. We have listened to the caregivers about what makes the biggest difference for them through both annual satisfaction surveys and more targeted consultation with caregivers. This has led to a range of caregiver support changes in the way we strengthen and simplify practices and policies—all designed to improve the experience of caregivers. In Budget 2025, we committed $16 million over four years to make care environments safer and to better support and train caregivers in the wider workforce.

Laura McClure: What other changes have been made to better support caregivers?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR: This year, we have established a caregiver panel which will collect ongoing feedback directly from caregivers, ensuring their voices and concerns are listened to and heard. This will enable continuous improvement as Oranga Tamariki makes sure they are offering practical support to caregivers to address any challenges that they might be facing. We have also completed a review of the higher fostercare allowance, which provides additional financial support in certain circumstances. This has resulted in an updated policy and guidance that supports a caregiver's application and approval process so that we can ensure caregivers are receiving the support they are entitled to. Practice guidance for social workers has also been clarified to make sure the views of caregivers are sought when it comes to key decisions involving the children they care for.

Laura McClure: What training is available for caregivers?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR: Oranga Tamariki offers a range of training support to caregivers, either directly or through community providers. The resources provided to people who are interested in becoming caregivers have also recently been updated. This helps people who are considering to become a caregiver to understand what is involved, how the application in the approval process works, and the supports that will be available to them. For far too long, the system has been too difficult to navigate. In May 2025, Caring Families Aotearoa launched two new online learning sessions for caregivers. These self-directed learning courses focus on national care standards and dealing with adverse childhood experiences. I am advised that 277 individuals have completed the modules since it was launched. We have also increased the training for social workers so that they can make sure that they are practising in a way that makes the caregiver experience the best it can possibly be.

SPEAKER: Yeah, good. A succinct question and a succinct answer would be good.

Laura McClure: What is her message to people thinking of becoming caregivers?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR: I have huge respect for anyone who opens their home and their hearts to look after children and young people. I'm committed to ensuring that caregivers have the supports they need. If you are thinking of becoming a caregiver or have been one in the past, I would encourage you to get in touch with Oranga Tamariki. There are opportunities out there, right now, for short-term or longer-term care and even respite care.

Mariameno Kapa-Kingi: Does she believe that the caregivers that they're seeking for Māori children are adequate enough to understand and be able to engage with Māori whānau in a Māori way?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR: We don't directly recruit caregivers specifically for Māori children; we recruit caregivers that are willing to open up their home and give a loving environment to children who need care.

Mariameno Kapa-Kingi: Does she, therefore, not recognise that Māoriness and cultural values are critical to Māori wellbeing and mokopuna Māori?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR: What I do agree to is that young people that come to the attention of Oranga Tamariki or into the care of Oranga Tamariki need a loving, supportive environment where they can thrive to be the best they can be, no matter who they are.

Mariameno Kapa-Kingi: Supplementary.

SPEAKER: No, the Māori Party's used up its allocation for today.

Question No. 8—Social Development and Employment

8. Hon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by her statement about unemployment that "I'm really confident our approach is working"; if so, why is unemployment worse than this time last year, with 16,000 more people unemployed?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment) on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Yes. Unemployment has been rising since 2021. We know unemployment is always one of the last things to come right after a recession, and, unfortunately, we have inherited from the previous Government a low-growth economy where unemployment was always forecast to increase to above 5 percent. That is why our Government is relentlessly focused on economic growth and getting people into work. When businesses have the confidence to invest and grow, it's good for jobs, it's good for growth, and it's good for the incomes of New Zealanders.

SPEAKER: Yep. Can I just—before the question is asked—short answers are good ones.

Hon Willie Jackson: Why is she the only one that thinks her policies are working when 60 percent—60 percent—of people think the Government is failing and not doing enough to stimulate job growth—60 percent; Television NZ news?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: I'd like to give the member asking the question some hope, because hope is on its way. I want to inform the member that on the back of economic growth in agriculture, horticulture, and tourism, the South Island unemployment rate is 4.3 percent—so Southland at 4.1, Otago at 3 percent, Tasman at 3.9 percent, and Canterbury at 5 percent. What that shows is that economic growth leads to employment.

Hon Willie Jackson: Is the Minister confident her policies are working for people living in Auckland, who have the worst regional unemployment statistics at 6.1 percent—higher than the national average of 5.1 percent?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Exactly the message that we have been giving: that unemployment is incredibly tough on the individuals that are in that position. It is always the last thing to come right after a recession. That is why this Government is so focused on ensuring inflation is kept down, interest rates are kept down, businesses are able to have the confidence to grow and employ people.

Hon Willie Jackson: Is she—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: Hang on a minute. Hang on. OK, now we're quiet.

Hon Willie Jackson: Is her approach working for the construction industry, which is missing both 18,000 workers and a concrete plan from this Government?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Again, the message is quite clear: that economic growth is what will provide jobs. I want to just give a bit of an example that, again, will give some hope to the member. Recently, a roofing firm in Southland was growing their numbers of staff. They employed a lovely young Māori guy, 22, from Auckland, who was a qualified roofer with a young family to shift down where there is work. There is growth in parts of our economy, and from that growth is employment.

Hon Willie Jackson: How can anyone have confidence in her policies when the Minister herself said in February '24 that her priority is supporting job seekers into work when job seeker numbers are skyrocketing, homelessness is out of control, and unemployment continues to grow?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: I think they can be very confident that this Government is absolutely focused on keeping inflation low, keeping interest rates low, ensuring that businesses have the confidence to invest. That is why we are seeing growth in industries like agriculture, horticulture, tourism, which are bringing on more jobs. That is the focus we need to continue to ensure that growth continues to occur.

Hon Willie Jackson: When will the Minister finally admit that the Luxon-led Government has done nothing—nothing—to improve the material wellbeing of families struggling to make ends meet; and that they are, in fact, making things worse, not better?

SPEAKER: I'd have to ask whether there was a question in that or was it just a statement? The Minister may respond—

Hon Willie Jackson: Well, I thought it was a question, but I—

SPEAKER: No, no. That's all right. The Minister may respond.

Hon Willie Jackson: Do you want me to repeat it?

SPEAKER: No, no. Definitely not.

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: We absolutely acknowledge that rising unemployment is tough on those that are impacted by it. However, the reality of the situation is that we have inherited a horrible human aftershock of poor economic management, so getting interest rates and inflation under control, and giving confidence to businesses, because it is businesses that employ people and industries that employ people.

Question No. 9—Prime Minister

9. Hon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader—Green) to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ngā kōrero me ngā mahi katoa a tōna Kāwanatanga?

[Does he stand by all of his Government's statements and actions?]

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes.

Hon Marama Davidson: How many jobs were lost as a direct result of his Government's decisions?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, as the member will be aware, we have seen an increase in people on the jobseeker benefit. That's a function of a previous Government that increased spending by 84 percent; tripled the debt; drove up inflation, interest rates; and put the economy in recession. Sadly, when you're in a recession with less demand for products and higher costs because of inflation and interest rates, people, sadly, lose their job. And that is a very challenging situation for individuals, and it's something this Government's working incredibly hard at.

Hon Marama Davidson: Is it correct that 46 percent of workers, such as teachers, nurses, firefighters, received a pay rise lower than inflation, and, if so, was that his Government's choice?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I'm very, very proud of the fact that, under this Government, we have had wages growing faster than inflation, unlike the previous Government, which had 12 or 13 quarters where inflation grew faster than wages. Ultimately, wages need to go ahead of inflation so that people can get ahead.

Hon Marama Davidson: When he said yesterday, "We are the parties of workers," did he refer to the women affected by the changes to pay equity claims?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, there is continued pay equity as we've talked about many times in this House. This Government continues to support it. We've put money aside to support future claims, and any individual or any employee is free to make a claim.

Hon Marama Davidson: Does he support building an additional 35,000 State homes to tackle growing homelessness and create thousands of jobs, and, if not, why not?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I'm very proud that Kāinga Ora has actually built 7,000 new homes under this Government. That is more than the 5,700 under the last term of the previous Government. Importantly, there will be about 2,000 extra homes each and every year being built. And, most importantly, there's been probably close to 6,000 people taken off the State house social housing wait-list. There's been 2,100 kids put into warm, dry homes. You see rents falling, under $5 a week versus $180 a week. And, as that member knows as the former Minister of homelessness—where homelessness went up 37 percent under her watch while the Government spent a billion dollars on emergency housing—those are difficult challenges.

Question No. 10—Conservation

10. CATHERINE WEDD (National—Tukituki) to the Minister of Conservation: What recent announcements has he made about the Conservation Act 1987?

Hon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation): On 2 August 2025, the Prime Minister and I announced changes to unlock growth on conservation lands. We're going to fix the Conservation Act to make it easier to conduct business and other activities on conservation lands, supporting activities like tourism, agriculture, and—one of my personal favourites—infrastructure, where that makes sense. In addition, we are giving the Department of Conservation more support by introducing the ability for the department to charge foreign visitors a fee to access high-volume sites. By charging foreign visitors to visit popular sites they currently enjoy for free, we can invest more in one of the key reasons they come to this country: our iconic nature, biodiversity, and world-class visitor, or manuhiri, experiences.

Catherine Wedd: How will simplifying the Conservation Act lead to greater economic growth in our regions?

Hon Shane Jones: Jobs—jobs.

Hon TAMA POTAKA: Exactly—jobs. Thousands of businesses operate on conservation land, bringing in millions of dollars a year for local and regional economies, and, indeed, jobs. Changes announced will enable faster processing of permits and other concessions for businesses and community organisations, amongst others. They also simplify the rules for doing business and undertaking other activities on conservation land, giving people greater certainty to invest and recreate. We can balance thriving natural environments with responsible development without unreasonably compromising conservation values.

Catherine Wedd: How will charging international tourists lead to greater protection of our biodiversity and natural environment?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: International visitors, like many Kiwis, love nature. Sixty-five percent go walking or tramping, and 45 percent visit a national park while they're here in New Zealand. Access charging will allow us to provide world-class manuhiri experiences while protecting nature through reinvesting this revenue. The access charges will focus on popular tourism experiences, creating a more sustainable way to fund their upkeep and improvement by those who use them. Charging international visitors at four majestic sites is estimated to generate around $60 million a year for conservation to be ring-fenced for conservation work like upgrading bridges and tracks, pest and predator control, and habitat restoration.

Catherine Wedd: What are the next steps for implementing access charging?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: We are carefully planning the next steps, including suitable physical and digital infrastructure required to support execution. The Department of Conservation want to take targeted consultation with concessionaires, local communities, and iwi for feedback on implementation options. New charges are intended to be in place by summer 2027.

Question No. 11—Housing

11. Hon PEENI HENARE (Labour) to the Associate Minister of Housing: Does he agree with Hon Chris Bishop that homelessness has "potentially ticked up a little bit, up a little bit more in the last couple of years"?

Hon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing): Yes, in the context of the full quote, homelessness is a long-running issue for New Zealand. I have said in this House previously that homelessness has, unfortunately, been increasing in New Zealand for many years. No one here wants to see Kiwis living homeless and particularly without shelter, but homelessness is not just a housing issue; it is driven by a range of structural and systemic failures that may reflect—and do reflect—the broader economic environment. This Government takes homelessness seriously, particularly those living without shelter, and that's why we are fixing the fundamentals of our housing market and making sure we have the right houses in the right places with the right support for people in genuine need.

Hon Peeni Henare: Does he consider a 90 percent increase in homelessness in Tāmaki-makau-rau to be "a little bit"?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: There are a range of data reports and comments that have been made over many years by councils, by community housing providers, and, indeed, by members of the Opposition. We have taken action by directing officials to provide advice on short-term, targeted interventions to provide help and support to those living without shelter. Officials and Ministers have liaised with numerous providers on these matters, and we await final advice.

Hon Peeni Henare: Does he agree with Auckland City Mission that his decision to refuse emergency housing to people suffering from pneumonia or undergoing dialysis has forced them to live on the streets and is putting pressure on already overrun hospital emergency departments?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: That is the first that I've heard of that particular quote, but what I have heard from the CEO of the community housing association of New Zealand, Paul Gilberd, is that the work we undertook with Priority One, in ensuring that over 3,000 children have come out of motels over the last 18 months, is an absolutely fantastic result, delivered in a timely manner with absolute empathy for those young children, who were living in a social, moral, and financial catastrophe that remained when we came into this administration.

Hon PEENI HENARE: Why, if Chris Bishop has said he is open to making it less difficult for people to access emergency housing, is he not acting immediately to remove the barriers preventing people from getting a roof over their heads?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: There are a number of issues that are conflated in the member's question. We have taken action to direct officials and seek their advice over short-term interventions targeted to help particularly those living without shelter and rough sleeping. We've also undertaken a range of activities, both short-term and long-term, to make it easier for New Zealanders to build houses and to access affordable housing, whether or not that's the mahi of Minister Chris Penk around building and construction laws, the mahi of Minister Bishop around the Resource Management Act and a number of other matters, or, indeed, the mahi that Minister Luxon and others have undertaken for emergency housing. We are absolutely clear: we will not return to the utopic boondoggles of 100,000 KiwiBuild homes or the moral catastrophe that was emergency housing on a large scale that affected places like Ulster Street in Hamilton West.

Hon Peeni Henare: Why, when reports from his own officials suggest there are more homeless people than ever, is he constructing 86 percent fewer State homes in 2025 than there were being built in 2023?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: As the members of this House are very aware, this Government does not believe it is only the Government that can build homes for New Zealanders. There are a range of parties, whether or not that's community housing providers, Māori housing providers, or, indeed, a range of other potential housing providers—but particularly private developers—that can build supply into the demand that is currently happening here in New Zealand. What we do know, though, and what we are absolutely committing to, is ensuring that those with genuine need get the right places and the right houses with the right support to address their needs.

Hon Peeni Henare: Why, when Māori are disproportionately represented among the homeless, when whānau in Tāmaki-makau-rau are facing a 90 percent rise in homelessness, and when even those battling serious illness are being turned away from emergency housing, is his Government not only cutting the number of State homes being built but refusing to act on Chris Bishop's admission that you could make it easier for people to get a roof over their heads?

Hon TAMA POTAKA: As the member is aware, we are very committed to supporting Māori-led housing delivery across places as far, far away as Utakura in the Hokianga Harbour, where, I understand, the member has some whakapapa connections—or, indeed, Te Kao, where other members of this House have some whakapapa connections—and also future-proofing and cost-proofing the transitional housing costs that we inhaled from the previous administration that were not cost-proof. These are the things that we do knowing that many, many Māori live in transitional housing that this Government has taken decisions on to ensure that those Māori in genuine need for housing support get it in a timely manner.

Question No. 12—Mental Health

12. GREG FLEMING (National—Maungakiekie) to the Minister for Mental Health: What recent reports has he seen on growth in the mental health workforce?

Hon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health): This Government is focused on faster access to timely mental health and addiction support. Health New Zealand payroll data shows there has been an almost 10 percent growth in the number of front-line mental health and addiction workers since this Government was elected. When Kiwis, their loved ones, friends, or family members make the brave step of reaching out for help, this Government is committed to ensuring we have the right support in place.

Greg Fleming: Where has there been significant growth in the mental health workforce?

Hon MATT DOOCEY: As the Minister for Mental Health, one of my top priorities is to grow the mental health and addiction workforce. Health New Zealand data shows there's been a significant growth in front-line staff—registered mental health nurses, up by 21 percent; nursing support workers, up 20 percent; clinical psychologists and drug and alcohol workers, up 6 percent; psychiatry senior medical officers, up 9.5 percent. Workforce should never be a barrier to accessing timely mental health and addiction support, and this Government is working hard to make sure it isn't.

SPEAKER: Just before the member asks the question, there's a lot of a conversations going on in the House when there shouldn't be. Questions are asked in silence.

Greg Fleming: What has been the result of the significant growth in the mental health workforce?

Hon MATT DOOCEY: In my view, one of the biggest barriers to timely mental health and addiction support in New Zealand is too many workforce vacancies. Since coming into office, the mental health workforce vacancy rate is down, total number of front-line mental health staff are up, and resignation rates are lower. Behind every one of these new front-line workers are hundreds of Kiwis now getting the support they need.

Greg Fleming: What feedback has he received on the increased front-line workforce?

Hon MATT DOOCEY: We're starting to turn the corner on mental health. Our plan is delivering decreased wait times and an increased workforce. The New Zealand College of Psychiatrists said, last week, New Zealand was turning a corner on workforce shortages. Dr Hiran Thabrew, the chair of the college, said, "the Government had demonstrated a genuine commitment to listening to those working at the coalface of the mental health system." The Auditor-General called for a specific mental health workforce plan in response to wait times and workforce shortages increasing under the previous Government. As a result, this is a priority of this Government, which we delivered in our first year: a dedicated mental health and addiction workforce plan that is delivering results.

Ingrid Leary: Is it his expectation that officials will include workforce gaps data in the refreshed mental health workforce plan due to be released soon, or will he once again let Lester Levy delete those numbers from the report before it's published?

SPEAKER: Look, I'm sorry—[Interruption] No, sit down. Have another go at asking the question. You can't make an accusation like that.

Ingrid Leary: Is it his expectation that officials will include workforce gaps data in the refreshed mental health workforce plan that he just mentioned, or will he allow those numbers to be missing from the report?

Hon MATT DOOCEY: I've never shied away from the workforce shortages being the biggest barrier to timely care and mental health. In fact, it was actually at my instruction that the workforce vacancy data was put into the mental health workforce plan in the first place.

© Scoop Media