12 May, 2013

On TVNZ’s Q+A programme ACT Leader John Banks tips first charter schools to be opened in ‘deprived’ areas

John Banks says there will be three to five charter schools to begin with, but he expects that to grow over the next decade.

“The original plan was about dealing with poor education attainments in Maori and Pasifika, and we’re going to the most deprived areas. You’ll find that these schools that’ll be set up first will be in those areas.

“We’ve got 34 interests across the country, and it will probably end up three, four or five initially. But in 10 years’ time, we’re going to have 50 or 60 partnership schools across the country, because they’re going to work.”

He’s not concerned about the lack of scrutiny of charter schools under the Official Information Act.

“This is going to be absolutely accountable with high, high hurdles and tight hoops, and they must produce results, and they’ll be monitored by the Ministry of Education, and they’ll be subject to the ombudsman for dismissals and expulsions.”

Asked if he plans to stand again in Epsom next year, Mr Banks said, “Of course, because it’s important that the centre right has coalition partners that are reliable, and the ACT Party has been a very reliable coalition partner for this government.”

Q+A, 9-10am Sundays on TV ONE and one hour later on TV ONE plus 1. Repeated Sunday evening at 11:30pm. Streamed live at www.tvnz.co.nz

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Q + A
CORIN DANN INTERVIEWS JOHN BANKS

CORIN Mr Banks, thank you very much for joining us. You’re going to pass this legislation with the support of the Maori Party.

JOHN BANKS – ACT Party Leader Yes.

CORIN Have they asked for any concessions in the bill for their support?

JOHN No. It’s not insignificant that the Maori Party would want to support this, because every second young Maori leaves school after 12 years of schooling without NCEA level II, no numeracy or literacy.

CORIN Sure, so they’re keen on it, but I know Dr Sharples has raised a few concerns around the issue of unregistered teachers. Nothing— They haven’t asked for any changes to the bill – that’s just what I’d like to know.

JOHN Well, no, they haven’t, and we wait and see how it goes. But the Maori Party is very keen on this because Maori iwi up and down the country are very supportive of the new partnership schools programme.

CORIN How many—? What sort of an indication are you getting of interest from sponsors?

JOHN Oh, wonderful interest right across the country. Iwi, church groups, industry-based groups, existing schools – a broad-based interest. This is going to be a paradigm shift for some of our poorest families in this country, particularly Maori and Pasifika.

CORIN I mention this— So what sort of scale are we talking here? Because initially when this was first floated, it was about one or two sort of, I guess, schools going into, say, disadvantaged areas in South Auckland or Christchurch and helping. Are you saying that it’s going to be a bit bigger than that? What sort of numbers are we talking here?

JOHN We’ve got 34 interests across the country, and it will probably end up three, four or five initially. But in 10 years’ time, we’re going to have 50 or 60 partnership schools across the country, because they’re going to work. Can I explain why they’re going to work? They’re going to work because the people that really understand deprivation in education – if you want to empty the jails, if you want to deal with family violence, then you have to educate people, because the common thread in the prisons and in the courts is a lack of numeracy and literacy skills. Now, this is what the Iwi Education Authority says, a distinguished group of Maori. They say, ‘Partnership schools are an opportunity to create a model of excellence for those groups of learners the system has routinely failed and neglected.’

CORIN Okay.

JOHN ‘Failure is intergenerational for Maori and Pasifika and the poor working class.’

CORIN So do those schools go into those areas of disadvantage and they are based in those areas – is that the plan?

JOHN Well, the authorisation committee that’s set up with distinguished educationalists on it, led by Catherine Isaac, is going to go through all the expressions of interest, and they’re going to choose them from there. There’s going to be much more flexibility but high levels of accountability.

CORIN Coming back to the original point, initially it was always about going to these disadvantaged areas, and now you’re talking about not including zoning. So essentially a school could go in anywhere and pick students from anywhere.

JOHN Look—

CORIN That was the original plan, was it?

JOHN No, the original plan was about dealing with poor education attainments in Maori and Pasifika, and we’re going to the most deprived areas. You’ll find that these schools that’ll be set up first will be in those areas. That’s what you’ll find.

CORIN Why disregard zoning, then, in those disadvantaged areas?

JOHN Look, look, look. We’ve got to deal with it. We’ve got the expressions of interest. They’re high quality, and we’re going to go through them very carefully and set them up. I can’t tell you where they’re going to be set up yet.

CORIN But you know that the critics are sceptical. They’re worried that these schools are just going to cherry-pick the best students, not deal with the ones that are difficult and therefore get all the good results.

JOHN Can’t cherry-pick – it’s in the legislation. You cannot cherry-pick. This is going to be a contract between the Government and the private provider of this education to make sure that they have flexibility but high levels of accountability around results – driven accountability.

CORIN But, no, hang on. High levels of accountability but no Official Information Act requests, so we can’t tell. We don’t know if there’s any—? How do we know?

JOHN There’s 5000 learning institutions across the country, including early childhood education centres, that are not under the Official Information Act.

CORIN But they have boards of trustees. They have parental involvement in the school. There’s no boards of trustees at these charter schools.

JOHN This is going to be absolutely accountable with high, high hurdles and tight hoops, and they must produce results, and they’ll be monitored by the Ministry of Education, and they’ll be subject to the ombudsman for dismissals and expulsions—

CORIN So a parent could go to the ombudsman?

JOHN Absolutely around expulsions and suspensions. Now, you know this – I was telling you about the Iwi Education Authority. They said here, ‘Our position on partnership schools is one of total and unequivocal support for their establishment as per the amendment bill. It is essential that the integrity of partnership schools is maintained. For far too long, status quo has prevailed with consistently poor results for Maori.’ I’m not going to sit back in my twilight years in public life and have 20% of the population go through the education system and come out as failures. We can do much better than that. And the only thing the trade unions are really really worried about is these are going to be a success. They’re going to be a paradigm shift for education, for the poor working-class families of New Zealand.

CORIN You talk about your twilight years – it’s a good place to look at, perhaps, ACT in your future. I mean, are you—? Do you still want to stay on? You’ve been in the court docks this week, you know, having to deal with other issues. Do you want to stay on as a politician? Is this your final swan song?

JOHN No. I’ve been around public life for 36 years and 14 elections, and it goes with the territory. All this stuff goes with the territory, and I can handle all of this, and I’m not fearful of any of it. And I’m absolutely committed to seeing the values of the ACT Party – freedom, choice, responsibility, less government, more opportunity, world-class education – put on to the statute books—

CORIN So you’ll be back for Epsom next year?

JOHN Well, that’s over to the people of Epsom. They’re very—

CORIN But you’ll be there?

JOHN Of course, because it’s important that the centre right has coalition partners that are reliable, and the ACT Party has been a very reliable coalition partner for this government.

CORIN Does that mean that you expect in return perhaps not a cup of tea but some sort of a nod from the Prime Minister again for Epsom voters?

JOHN No, what I expect in return is some of the policies that the ACT Party passionately believes in, like the private provision of education, partnership schools and a world-class education for Maori and Pasifika as part of a deal going forward after the election.

CORIN But you don’t expect or you don’t want to get an endorsement from the Prime Minister?

JOHN No, because the people of Epsom clearly understand that if they hadn’t have elected me at the last election, they wouldn’t have had a John Key-led government.

CORIN They don’t need you this time?

JOHN Well, you know, the people of Epsom clearly understand that they don’t want a Greens-Labour government. They do want a centre-right National-ACT coalition government.

CORIN It could be with Winston Peters as well. Could you work with him?

JOHN I can work with anyone as long as they subscribe to what I passionately believe in through the ACT Party principles of freedom, choice and responsibility. They’re very important to us.

CORIN John Banks, I’ll leave it there. Thank you very much for your time.

ENDS

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