Labour leader Andrew Little on balancing politics and family

Labour leader Andrew Little is standing by his party’s stance on repealing the charter schools legislation if his party comes to power, but he’s left the door open for existing charter schools.
Speaking on TVNZ’s Q+A programme this morning, Mr Little told Jessica Mutch that all schools would need trained and registered teachers and must teach the national curriculum.
“We are going to repeal the charter schools legislation. All the existing charter schools we will talk to about continuation if they meet those minimum sorts of requirements,” he said.

On immigration Mr Little said he was confident he could work with Winston Peters.
“He has a view about immigration which is about reducing numbers. For me and for Labour, it is about managing immigration better,” he said.
The Labour Party’s immigration policy will be released in a few weeks.

Mr Little said he and his wife, Leigh, had made a conscious decision to keep their son Cam out of the limelight.
“It’s not fair for me to impose on him, you know, getting out there publicly. He makes a decision about what level of publicity, if you like, that he wants or gets. But he’s a teenager at a school, and I don’t want a whole heap of attention focused on him.”

END

Please find attached the full transcript of the interview and here is the link on our webpage.

Q+A, 9-10am Sundays on TVNZ 1 and one hour later on TVNZ 1 + 1.
Repeated Sunday evening at around 11:35pm. Streamed live at www.tvnz.co.nz
Thanks to the support from NZ On Air.
Q+A is also on Facebook: here and on Twitter

Q + A
Episode 10
ANDREW LITTLE
Interviewed by Jessica Mutch

JESSICA I want to start by asking you – four months out from the election, are you pleased about where Labour is at?

ANDREW What I’m really pleased about is the state of the party organisation, but the fact that we’ve got a caucus now that’s determined and focused and working very well. As I get around the country, the feedback to me is pretty overwhelming. People are saying there are things going on in New Zealand that they are unhappy about, uncomfortable with and they are looking around for a change. And our challenge over the next four and a half months is to harness that and turn that into electoral victory, and I’m feeling very confident.

JESSICA What about money? How is Labour doing on that front? You’ve had a couple of by-elections; have you got enough money to fight this election?

ANDREW Yeah, look. Without sounding sort of self-serving about this, we’re doing very well. Actually the bulk of our donations and contributions comes from small donations. The average donation we have coming in to the Labour Party is about $37. We just get a lot of those. And so we get a small share of corporate donations, but the bulk of our fundraising and the funds that we have comes from just ordinary Kiwis just making small contributions, and we are way ahead of where we’ve been compared to many elections in past years.

JESSICA I want to start off talking to you about immigration. You’ve already been discussing that at the congress over the weekend. You say you’re going to cut immigration by tens of thousands. How are you going to do that?

ANDREW I’ll have a detailed policy that I’ll be announcing in a few weeks, but the areas that we’re looking at is at the number of work visas that we’re issuing. 42-43,000 work visas, including for occupations that I know that we can staff from within New Zealand. And we’re also looking at the student visa area as well. Because I know that some of the student visas that we’re issuing are for students to come to courses that are, frankly, of pretty low quality. So we’ll have a look at those. In the end, this is a policy that’s about recognising that even though we are a country based on immigration, the numbers of people arriving to settle here are more than our country can cope with. And we’ve got cities that are choking, that are clogged, and we just simply can’t keep up. So we just need to have a bit of a breather so give us a chance to build the houses, you know, sort out the traffic problems, make sure that the schools aren’t overcrowded and the hospitals can do the job they need to do.

JESSICA The way you’ve just talked about immigration there, saying we need a breather, saying the cities are clogged, it doesn’t feel like a very natural fit for Labour. What do you say to that?

ANDREW In the end, you’ve got to look at problems as they are. It’s not as we would like them to be. But the truth is Auckland, in particular, has got thousands of people arriving – tens of thousands – to settle each year.

JESSICA Does this sit comfortably with you, as a leader, to talk about?

ANDREW Yeah, it does, because I want everybody – whether the people already living here or people coming here to settle – to have a good quality of life. And there’s no point in having tens of thousands of people coming here if they can’t buy a house, if the schools they’re sending their kids to are overcrowded or they can barely move around the city because of traffic congestion. We’ve got to get those things right because it’s not just ourselves we’re selling short; it’s the people who we are saying, to the rest of the world, “Come here and enjoy life here.” Because it ain’t that enjoyable in many parts at the moment.”

JESSICA Could some people liken your policy and your stance at the moment very much like New Zealand First. Is that the point?

ANDREW No. I focus solely on the fact that the number of people coming to settle here is more than our country and our biggest cities can cope with. It’s just about that number. It’s not about where people come from. We’re a country built on immigration. We are always going to need people to come from overseas to bring skills and talents here that we don’t already have. That’s what New Zealand’s built on. I’m a first-generation New Zealander. My parents were immigrants. So I know what that’s about. But I’ve got to look at what’s happening to our cities and say, “We can’t carry on doing what we’re doing, and we’ve just got to take a breather, slow down and get it right.”

JESSICA Is it a side-effect, though, that you can work with Winston Peters on this issue? Is that a nice little bonus out of this?

ANDREW Oh, I’m totally confident I can work with Winston Peters on this. I mean, he has a view about immigration which is about reducing numbers. For me and for Labour, it is about managing immigration better so that we don’t have, or adding or compounding the problems that we’ve got at the moment with overcrowding and stretched services and clogged transport networks. You know, we cannot say that we’re a country that’s offering a good lifestyle if we’re carrying on doing that.
JESSICA We asked people to send in questions for you from our Facebook page, and one of the questions was about immigration. I want to read that to you now. It’s from Duncan. It says, “Why is your party beginning to tout a nationalist line when it’s obvious that the problem is not immigrants but the neoliberal system that we operate under?” What do you say to that?

ANDREW Yeah, well, they’re not wrong about that, actually, it is. The way we’ve both managed immigration and failed to manage issues like making sure our housing numbers are keeping up, our traffic issues are being managed properly, there’s been a sort of complete mismatch in all of that. But the reality is right now we have a major challenge, which is that we cannot accommodate and cope with all of the people who are coming to settle here. So it is a pragmatic sort of stance to say, “Let’s just slow that down, slow the population growth down. Let’s get to work on building the houses and sorting out the traffic, on making sure the schools can accommodate everybody who’s got to go there and take a breather and get that right.” And then once we get those things sort of functioning, working well and operating, yeah, then we can continue to focus on getting the skills and the talents that we need for the good of the economy.

JESSICA I want to ask you about charter schools now. On the show on Q+A last week, Willie Jackson talked about charter schools being called another name under Labour – still the same but called Partnership Schools. Is that accurate? Will they be able to do that if they meet the criteria for having registered teachers and teaching the national curriculum?

ANDREW I think we made it pretty clear we don’t like the charter schools model. We’re going to repeal that legislation. But listen, we’re not going to disrupt any child’s education. And there are charter schools that meet the kind of minimum standards that we have – trained, registered teachers in front of the kids, teaching the national curriculum. We will talk to each of the existing charter schools about continuity and where the future lies. One thing that we are all agreed about – Willie Jackson, me, everybody – is that we have to have an education system that is preparing every New Zealand child for success in the future – and that is about having the right learning environment.

JESSICA So when you say you won’t disrupt children in their learning, you’re saying that you’ll keep charter schools open, or most of charter schools open. Is that what you’re saying?

ANDREW Well, no. I’m saying that we’ll look at each and talk to each and every one of them. I don’t know what the state of each and every one of them is. We’re not going to disrupt kids’ education where they are getting a good education, and we will make sure that the schools that are being publicly funded meet those minimum requirements. Labour is the party of the Special Character schools. We recognise that you do sometimes have to have different learning environments for kids to thrive and excel. And so we’re totally signed up to that. But a charter school model, that allows untrained teachers in front of kids is not right.

JESSICA Isn’t Special Character school just another name for charter schools, though? Isn’t that just another name though?

ANDREW No. No, I’m not sure it does that at all, actually. The special character schools had requirements attached to them. Had to have trained teachers teaching the national curriculum, doing good things and just recognise that sometimes aspects of the learning environment have to be different. So we want every New Zealand child – Maori, Pakeha, rich or poor, wherever – to have the best possible education and be prepared for success. We have to do that, and we’ve got to get that right.

JESSICA I want to get this really clear, because there’s been a lot of talk about this week. Will charter schools close under the Labour Party?

ANDREW We are going to repeal the charter schools legislation. All the existing charter schools we will talk to about continuation if they meet those minimum sorts of requirements.

JESSICA I’m unclear. Is that a yes or a no?

ANDREW I am being very clear. We will talk to existing charter schools about continuing or continuation. We are not going to have schools that don’t require, don’t oblige, the teachers standing in front of kids to be trained and registered, and we’re not going to continue to publicly fund schools that don’t teach to the national curriculum. We’ve got to have that. There are some schools doing some amazing stuff, and if there are charter schools doing amazing stuff that meet those requirements, we will talk to them about continuation. But we are going to repeal the charter schools legislation, because that model is not good.

JESSICA Another thing relating to this topic was talk this week about having Maori values set up in the prison system to help prisoners; basically, having a Maori prison system. I talked to Kelvin Davis about this on the show a few weeks ago. Why will you entertain that idea about treating the prison system differently and are less keen to look at different solutions when it comes to education?

ANDREW I think you’re wrong on both counts. I mean, it is not a policy of ours to have special Maori prisons or tikanga Maori prisons. It is our policy to—

JESSICA You said you were going to look at it, though. Would you look at having that as Labour policy?

ANDREW What we have to look at is the hideous statistic that over half the prison population in New Zealand at the moment is Maori, when Maori represents about 18 percent of the general population. There is something going seriously wrong. So we have to do things differently to what we’re doing now. What that looks like – I mean, we need to have a good discussion and a good examination of it. When it comes to education, we are the party of special character schools. We are the party that has recognised that for some kids, you do need a different learning environment than you know other schools. We supported kura kaupapa many, many years ago when they were first introduced. So it’s not about being not able to look at alternatives that’s going to give every child, every citizen, the chance to thrive and succeed. Where things aren’t working, we’ve got to look at differences, and we’re totally open to that.

JESSICA I want to move on to leadership now. Do you agree that to vote for you, people need to feel like they’re connecting with you emotionally? And do you feel like you’re doing a good job of that?

ANDREW As I get around the country – I’ve been doing these public meetings – look they’ve been, we’ve had incredible attendance at it, and it’s not the Labour faithful turning up to those meetings, it’s all sorts of people. And the message to me is overwhelming. When people come up and talk to me one-on-on, it’s, you know, ‘Things aren’t right. We’re looking for a difference. We like what you’re saying.’ Some of them actually say they quite like me, so that’s flattering too. But in the end, it’s about a whole bunch of Kiwis who are saying it’s not right; they’re fearful for their children and grandchildren not getting to own their own home; they don’t like what’s happening with the young unemployed and the fact that young people are just being shut out of a job market; they don’t like the fact that their parents and grandparents can’t get the healthcare that they need. People are looking for something different, and they’re saying that it’s not right, now.

JESSICA Let’s talk about what you offer that’s different, then. We were talking this morning before the show and talking about your family situation, and none of us were sure whether you had children, and we didn’t feel like we knew much about your wife either. Is that something you’ve done deliberately, or do you feel like you want to keep that aspect out of the political arena? Or do we just not know you well enough yet?

ANDREW Yeah, I think, my wife isn’t the one standing for public office. But I know, standing for high public office, people need to know and want to know what my living arrangements and family arrangements are. My wife’s going to be talking to our congress this afternoon. We’ve got a son, 15-year-old son. We actually had made a conscious decision to keep him out of the limelight. It’s not fair for me to impose on him, you know, getting out there publicly. He makes a decision about what level of publicity, if you like, that he wants or gets. But he’s a teenager at a school, and I don’t want a whole heap of attention focused on him. But people will know that we’re a little, small family living in Wellington, and there’s been the odd, you know, woman’s magazine article about that sort of stuff. People will get to know – or people do know and are knowing – that I come from a family background, I have very strong family links, I’m very family-oriented, because that is, you know, important to me, personally. It’s what gives me strength. But it’s actually the Kiwi story about good strong homes, good strong communities.

JESSICA And it’s important that people connect with you on that level, isn’t it? It’s important that we get to know you a bit better if you’re going to be the next prime minister.

ANDREW And there’s always a balance, I think, isn’t there, for your family, who— they’ve got their privacy. They’re not standing for public office. But on the other hand, you know, people do want to know who I am, who’s next to me, who’s near me, who’s close to me. And I think people are seeing— I talk a lot about my son, Cam. I talk a lot about Leigh. But they’re not flashing up in images all over the place, because we’ve got to get that balance right.

JESSICA Perhaps in contrast to some of the former leaders, I guess. But in terms of the image side of things, I mean, are you working on that? Because, I guess, you have a reputation for being quite defensive sometimes in the media, and that name Angry Andy pops up a bit. Are you conscious of that and are you working on that?

ANDREW I hear that label every now and again. I’m never going to apologise for being passionate about who I am and what I stand for, and that is about opportunity for everyone. I’ve had the great benefit of growing up in this fantastic country of ours and an education system that gave me opportunities, that gave the kids I rubbed shoulders with right across the board or that.

JESSICA Are you working on that reputation, though?

ANDREW Am I working on the—? I didn’t quite hear that.

JESSICA Are you working on that, though – seeming a bit defensive and seeming a bit angry when you come across in the media sometimes?

ANDREW Yeah, I mean, people can say that. As I said, I am passionate about my values, my views, and I’m passionate about this amazing country that I have the privilege of living in, and I want everyone living here to have the benefit of the beauty that this country has to offer and the opportunities that it has to offer. Too many New Zealanders are missing out. And if I get a little bit het up about that, well, you know, that’s me. But I want New Zealanders to be in a country where they can say of all their fellow citizens and their neighbours and people in their community that everybody gets a fair go and an opportunity and gets to live and cherish this beautiful country that we’re in.

JESSICA Is this job harder than you thought it would be?

ANDREW It’s a tough job, but I’ve never, ever shied away from tough jobs. I guess one thing I would say of myself, I’m used to throwing myself in the deep end and making my way. I did it as a young lawyer; I did it as a union leader; I’m doing it in this job. I don’t mind tough jobs, and I don’t mind it when the going gets tough. It actually spurs me on. And I’m very determined to make a difference. I’m very determined about what Labour has to offer for New Zealand, and they will see that over the next four and a half months as we campaign really hard for this election.

JESSICA Well, thank you very much for your time this morning. We’ll let you get back to that campaigning, and enjoy the rest of your day.

ANDREW Thank you.

© Scoop Media