Greg Boyed Interviews Ian Leckie
 
“Every class size in every primary school is going to increase.”
 
NZEI head says, “I am yet to find a single school get in touch with me to say, ‘We are gaining.’”
 
Union wants teacher number ratios included in contract negotiations
 
“Changing those ratios, which is what this government has done, has meant that there are going to be more children and fewer teachers. So, yes, it does belong in teachers’ contracts.”
 
Teachers want nothing less than government to reverse its decision on class sizes; that would stave off industrial action.
 
Removal of technology staffing for year 7 and 8 is “an absolute travesty”.
 
Teacher meetings this week will discuss tactics – when and how to respond.
 
“…to say that we’re going to be going out striking today is certainly very premature.”
 
 
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Q+A
 
GREG BOYED INTERVIEWS IAN LECKIE
 
 
GRED BOYED
The head of the Primary Teachers’ Union, Ian Leckie, is here. He joins me now. Good morning. What do teachers, unions and students want to hear from the government come Tuesday?
 
IAN LECKIE - NZEI President
                        Well, come Tuesday, certainly to alter the decisions, to change back. They have to realise that this decision is unprecedented. It’s extraordinary - that any government in living history would actually raise class sizes rather than lower class sizes. Education really does need to be seen as an investment, and, quite clearly, this government is questioning that.
 
GREG             We saw the marches, 40-odd arrests on Friday with students. How far are you willing go on this? Are strikes now inevitable?
 
IAN                  Well, certainly we’re taking to our teaching community in meetings that are going to be starting next week exactly the question of how do we oppose this. Obviously this is not good for children. We see that the collective agreements where class size has never been included are one way of actually making sure that the issue stays to the forefront. We’ve got huge parent support in and around this as well. 
 
GREG             You’re saying this is not good for students. Nor is strike action and industrial action, though. At what point do you make that call?
 
IAN                  I think that’s a decision down the track, and to say that we’re going to be going out striking today is certainly very premature. What we’re taking to our members is the discussion to say, ‘How important is it? Do you think it’s important? What are you prepared to do? And at what time will we show our opposition to this?’ Quite clearly, the public opposition to this is more than loud and clear. Every class size in every primary school is going to increase. The removal, the total removal of technology staffing for year 7 and 8 is an absolute travesty for those programmes.
 
GREG             You’re saying every class. Can you clarify that, because there has been quite a back-down. Can you clarify what you’re saying there?
 
IAN                  Well, there’s two points you’re saying. One - the back-down isn’t a back-down. It’s just staving off a decision. You talked about seven classes- sorry, some schools losing seven teachers. They won’t lose more than two over the next three years, but then everybody goes. So the end result is absolutely the same.
 
GREG             Should class sizes be part of teachers’ contracts?
 
IAN                  Well, I think children’s learning conditions is teachers’ teaching conditions. So the two sit together.
 
GREG             Should that be defined that I will have no more than 27 in any class I teach? Just put it black and white in contracts?
 
IAN                  You’re talking slightly differently. Maximum class size is a separate question. What we’re talking about is the ratios that generate the number of teachers in a school. Changing those ratios, which is what this government has done, has meant that there are going to be more children and fewer teachers. So, yes, it does belong in teachers’ contracts.
 
GREG             So are you willing to sit down with Hekia Parata next week, and if you are, what are you going to say? What are you going to ask for exactly?
 
IAN                  We need this decision reversed. Already we’ve heard political parties polarising around it. They are taking the same view that NZEI members are taking. This is not a good decision. It needs to be reversed. That’s what I’ll be saying to Hekia Parata.
 
GREG             Isn’t the quality of the teachers more important than the ratio of teachers to students?
 
IAN                  Yeah, and isn’t an anachronism to actually say let’s talk about quality, but the first thing we’ll do is increase the number of children in every class? If you really want quality for children, then the interaction between the teacher and the child must be paramount. Raising quality isn’t putting more children in every class.
 
GREG             Hekia Parata says some big schools will actually gain teachers under this model. That’s going to be fairly cold comfort, I imagine, to the ones who won’t.
 
IAN                  Um, I am yet to find a single school get in touch with me to say, ‘We are gaining.’ The overall net effect is raising the classroom ratios. The net effect is every school is going to lose in this.
 
GREG             At what point do you go, ‘Ok, we’re happy. We’re not going to do industrial action. We’re not going to walk out on the kids. There are going to be no strikes’? Realistically, is that going to be able to happen this week?
 
IAN                  If the government reversed that decision, then, absolutely, that would stave off any sort of action.
 
GREG             All right. NZEI President Ian Leckie.

ENDS

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