Sunday 3 June, 2012

Greg Boyed Interviews David Shearer

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Q+A

GREG BOYED INTERVIEWS DAVID SHEARER


GREG BOYED
I spoke to David Shearer on Friday and began by asking him about the state of the centre-left in New Zealand and how he’d describe Labour’s relationship with the Greens.

DAVID SHEARER - Labour Leader
It’s good. We meet regularly with them. It’s always cordial. We have a, I wouldn’t say a no-surprises approach, but we certainly consult with them on some issues, so it’s good. But we’re competitors at the same time, so we’re both cooperating and in competition.

GREG How regularly do you meet, and what do you actually talk about?

DAVID Uh, I’m not going to tell you what we’re talking about, but we meet about once or twice, once a month, once every six weeks - something like that. It’s regular because it’s good idea to do it. We obviously bump into each other at different times, but having a regular slot’s not a bad idea.

GREG A lot of people are referring to the Greens as the opposition party after getting more than 11% in the last election, and that’s certainly some of the noises they’re making. How does that sit with you?

DAVID It would obviously suit them to hear that, to say that. I can completely reject that, actually, because in all the major issues that we’ve come up against this year, we have been out in front of pretty much all of them. But they are making more noise than they did last year. They’ve got more MPs than they did last year. But Labour, as the biggest party in opposition, is the party that will form the next government, and we are ahead on pretty much all of the issues that are important to New Zealanders right now.

GREG I just want to read something Metiria Turei said at the Green policy conference back in February. ‘We’re not the benefactors of Labour or National voters. We’re our own political force which generates support in our own right.’ Given the numbers and given the visibility, it’s pretty hard to argue with that.

DAVID Look, they’re doing well. I’m not going to argue against that, but when it comes to real heart and soul New Zealand, where are we going to be, where’s the future going to lie? It’s going to lie with a Labour-led Government. As I say, on the major issues - look at the school classroom sizes example, we are leading that debate. We have come out quite forcefully and said, ‘We will take the class sizes back to what they were before.’ And that is an issue where I believe Labour is out ahead, and the Greens are much further behind.

GREG Can we assume, though, that come 2014, it’s not going to be a Labour-only government? You’re going to need the Greens.

DAVID Well, we’re looking forward, and obviously the composition right now if you’re looking at the polls, you could make that assumption. Two and a half years is a pretty long time, and a lot of things can change in that time. They say a week’s a long time in politics. Two and a half years is a couple of lifetimes. So I’m not going to make any predictions right now, but obviously the composition could be different to what it is right now.

GREG Let’s talk about your leadership basically six months into it. You knew this question was coming.

DAVID (LAUGHS) I sort of predicted it, yeah.

GREG David Cunliffe, he gave a speech just recently that sounded like a state of the nation, almost a leader’s type of speech. There are a number of points he covered in that, including the global financial crisis and Labour’s political standing in New Zealand’s political landscape. How does that sit with you? That the man who was trying to get your job is making speeches like that?

DAVID Well, he’s also the man who put together our economic policies for the last election, and many of them, the great majority of them, will continue on now. Look, I mean, the Labour Party is a broad church. We’ve got lots of ideas out there. David was articulating an idea and some ideas. I mean, good on him. I mean, that’s the way that it happens in the Labour Party.

GREG Is it disloyal to make speeches like that and say some of the things he said in that speech?

DAVID No. Look, I’ve spoken to David about it. We’ve sat down and chatted about it. He’s my Economic Development Spokesperson, so he’s right in the heart of our decision making around economic policy. So there are no problems there.

GREG One of the points he did say, though, is that Labour in the last election failed to inspire voters. If there was an election in six months, what do you think you’ve done a year in the jobs to inspire voters?

DAVID Well, we’ve only been six months in the job. But I think that what people are seeing in the Labour Party now is a different Labour Party. Definitely, in terms of our economic policies, we’re prepared to take the big calls. Calls on superannuation. We’ve tried to ensure that our exchange rate is good for businesses. Trying to make sure that our businesses grow so that they create the high-value jobs that New Zealand definitely needs. We’ve stuck up for the education system and will get in behind it so kids leaving school go on to something rather than go on to nothing. There’s 87,000 kids that go on to nothing. So I believe that New Zealanders will see a real point of difference in terms of where New Zealand is going and where it’s going to be, and compared to a National Government whose big policy is to sell off things and to actually crimp the pay of paper boys. These are the fiddling-around-the-edges type of policies that they’re espousing.

GREG Let’s talk about another one of your team now. Shane Jones - with the benefit of hindsight, did you move a bit quickly on that before waiting for the decision which, let’s face it, came out the day after, in standing him down. Was that a mistake on your part?

DAVID Yeah, no, it’s really interesting. I was told that I was too slow by many commentators in the newspaper. I heard about this issue on a Friday a couple of weeks ago. I spoke to him on the Sunday. We went through the papers. We had a chat about it. I decided not to stand him down because I could not find anything he had done wrong in terms of the process he had followed. But it was clear that Shane was getting bombarded by criticism, and so we had another sit down, and I said, ‘I think the best thing to do here is to flick it through to an independent inquiry, and while that’s on, you stand down,’ which he’s done. And I think that was the right call to make. We’ve got the Auditor General taking a look at it. As of Friday, they’ve made that announcement. Thursday, they made that announcement. And I’m very happy they’re going ahead with it, because it gives Shane a chance to clear his name. It also means that we give confidence to the New Zealand public that processes in government are followed correctly, and I think that’s important too.

GREG So, the first six months - we’re back to that point. The first six months - have you got Labour to where you wanted Labour to be after the last election, after the leadership of Phil Goff? Or do you still have a long way to go?

DAVID We’ve got some way to go. I’m the first person to admit that. But if I was standing six months ago looking forward and it was said you’re leading on the key issues in New Zealand, your team is getting up and is active and out there and doing their job right, and your polls are going up at around 1% a month, um, I would say, ‘Gee, that’s not bad going.’ So I’m satisfied with where we are, but I’m not satisfied that this is where it’s at. We need to go much further before 2014.

GREG A lot of people made the call when you started that you didn’t have the mongrel. (DAVID LAUGHS) Are you going to have to get the mongrel, or is the David Shearer that is sitting here come 2014, come election time, going to be basically the same bloke?

DAVID Look, I’m David Shearer. I’m not going to try and be anything different than I am. But I don’t go out there and bang the table and point the fingers and make accusations at individuals. I play the ball, not the man, and that’s the way I’m going to continue to do it And, yes, I’m tough, but I don’t go around looking and sounding tough because that’s just not me. But when it comes to the hard calls, you can be pretty sure that I’m making them.

GREG What are the lessons learnt by you since taking over the job?

DAVID I think the key issue is to get on top of what’s happening in terms of if there are issues that are running and the public is concerned about it, you’ve got to make sure that you’re listening to the public, getting in behind what their concerns are. That’s really important, and it’s one of the reasons I’ve been going around the country listening to people. I was in Christchurch yesterday. I’m in Wanganui in the weekend. That’s really important. But it’s also important you’ve got your team with you and that the team is operating really well and you’re starting to put out there a real vision for where New Zealand could be and what it might be in the future - a real vision of New Zealand growing, growing for everybody and not just a few, making sure everybody’s incomes go up, making sure everybody has the opportunity that they absolutely and utterly need.

GREG And how do you differentiate that vision between the government and what the Greens are doing so successfully, and you’re somewhere in the middle? How do you differentiate that message in what you want?

DAVID Well, the thing that’s different about us is that we have to be that much more accountable because people see us as leading the next government. The Greens, because they’ve never been in government up to now, can be less, in a sense, rigorous with some of their policies. We have to make sure that people see us as the future leadership of this country, and therefore we have to have that ability to straddle good ideas and new ideas, but make sure that they add up, they are affordable and that they work and that they work for all New Zealanders.

GREG So are the Greens allies or are they competition?

DAVID Both. They’re both. I mean, they’re looking to take our vote away from us. We’re making sure that they don’t do that, obviously. We want to be as strong as possible. We have a lot of similar policies, and that’s great, and so there’s some issues which in Opposition, in particular right now, where there is some complementarity, but at the same time we are definitely competing with them.

GREG John Key is a second-term prime minister. What do you see as the qualities of a good prime minister that you can bring to the job?

DAVID Oh, I think I can bring the ability to be fair. I think that many New Zealanders feel that where their country is going is benefitting some and not benefitting others. I believe that people would see from me somebody who does have real ambition for the country, but is going to make sure that everybody gets their fair share in whatever comes from that. And I don’t think people feel that right now that the government is doing that. And I also feel that New Zealanders are very proud of their country. I’m a passionate New Zealander. They don’t like things being sold off. They don’t like crimping and saving around the edges that will limit the opportunities of our young people. And we’re seeing so many people going off to Australia at the moment. It’s heart-breaking. So somebody that has a real passion for their country and where it’s going, and I have that in spades.

GREG All right. Labour leader David Shearer, thank you.

DAVID Thanks, Greg.

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