Rhodes Scholar calls for better political system
Rhodes Scholar calls for better political system to engage young people
Author Max Harris says New Zealand needs to introduce civics education in schools to allow young people to learn more about politics and encourage them to vote.
The 28-year-old’s book ‘The New Zealand Project’ will be published later this month and he told Jessica Mutch on Q+A this morning it was time for a fresher political debate to engage more people in the process.
The deeper things are a bit harder – around respecting young people’s voices and maybe doing politics in a way that appeals to people more,” he said. “One way we can get there is through talking about values a little bit more, and in particular, values of care, community and creativity that I think connect to the heart as well as the head and connect to people’s everyday experiences.”
He said people often talked about young people not being engaged but he did not agree with that entirely.
“Young people are engaged in lots of other ways – on social media, through blogs, through music, through street art,” he said. “Politicians need to also look at themselves and ask whether the political system’s appealing to young people.” “There’s a lot of throwaway talk about listening. I’m not sure how much young people really feel listened to by politicians at the moment.”
Max
Harris’s book ‘The New Zealand Project’ is published
on April 11 by Bridget Williams Books.
http://bwb.co.nz/books/new-zealand-project
END
Please find attached the full
transcript of the interview and here’s the Link:
Q +
A
Episode
4
MAX
HARRIS
Interviewed by JESSICA MUTCH
JESSICA I want to start off by
talking about your personal story, because it’s pretty
remarkable. You had heart surgery, and while you were
waiting for that to happen, you just decided you’d do this
little exam that is probably one of the most difficult in
the world – no biggie, really Tell me about that. What
were you
thinking?
MAX Well,
I suppose, getting this heart problem coming up was quite
unexpected, and I had planned to come back to New Zealand
about two years ago. And actually, I had to push my flights
back. And so I was in Oxford; I’d heard about this very
strange, unusual exam, and I thought, while I wait around
for the surgery, why not give it a
shot?
JESSICA Because
most people would think, ‘Oh, I need to live it up large.
This makes me a bit nervous.’ You thought, ‘No, no,
I’ll sit a really hard
exam.’
MAX I
mean, the heart problem meant that I couldn’t really live
it up large, as much as other people might have. But, yeah
no, I guess I thought there was a very tiny chance that
something good might’ve come from it. The fellowship gives
you seven years to do any kind of research that you want.
And even though I didn’t really think I was going to get
through the exam, I thought it was worth a go, and to my
surprise, I got an interview and thought the interview went
very badly. The interview’s in front of about 50 Oxford
academics wearing gowns and grilling you on your exam. And I
thought at the end of that interview, ‘Back to New Zealand
now.’ And then surprisingly, about a week later, got told
that I
passed.
JESSICA Because
that experience with your health – how did that affect how
you chose the topic of New Zealand politics? Because you
were allowed to choose anything you liked. What attracted
you to NZ politics, apart from being a Kiwi, of
course.
MAX Well,
I guess I did think quite a lot about mortality
around then. So there was a two to three percent mortality
risk of the surgery that I was going through. And there was
talk about underlying conditions that might shorten my life
expectancy. So, yeah, I really thought that if my life might
be shorter, how can I make a difference on issues that I
care about? And I remember how, talking to an early audience
about the book, and I told them how the one issue I really
wanted to focus on was New Zealand politics, they laughed.
But to me, it was sort of obvious, you know? I grew up in
New Zealand. I was really lucky to benefit from public
education here, from great teachers at university, and I
felt a kind of responsibility to give back, and I want, like
many young New Zealanders, for politics to be better. So it
didn’t actually take a lot of time to think about it, and
luckily I got a book contract and got started talking to
young New Zealanders and others; a couple of years later, I
managed to finish this
book.
JESSICA Because
one of the points of the book is these disengaged voters,
the Kiwis or young people, especially, who are choosing not
to vote.
-CLIP
PLAYS-
JESSICA I
don’t know – maybe a few MPs have a little bit of
‘swag’ in our parliament at the moment. But, look, we
look at that clip; what do you make of that and some of the
comments that some of our young people are saying
there?
MAX Yeah, I
think it shows there are lots of reasons why people feel
disengaged and actually why politics has disengaged from
young people. So I think a lot of people feel that
politicians don’t represent them – a lot of young people
– and I think a lot of people don’t like how politics is
done, and I saw that in talking to people for the book. So
one young person told me, ‘It seems like politicians are
experts in self-promotion, in cutting people down.’ And
another told me that politicians just seem like they’re
squabbling with each other rather than focusing on issues
that
matter.
JESSICA But
don’t they have to take a little bit of responsibility
now? It’s now easier than ever to get in contact with your
local MP, to see them, through social media. Don’t they
have to say, ‘Okay, right, I’ll read up on this. I’ll
become interested.’ How much of that is a balance?
MAX It’s
a two-way street, I think. So it is a
responsibility to be involved as much as possible. We
don’t have civics education in New Zealand, and I talk
about that in the book, which would make it easy to empower
people to understand the political system. And the other
thing to say, of course, is we’re talking a little bit
about voting, but young people are engaged in lots of other
ways – on social media, through blogs, through music,
through street art. And so I think people are finding ways
to express their opinions, and they are worried. And
politicians need to also look at themselves and ask whether
the political system’s appealing to young
people.
JESSICA Are
they just a bit lazy as well?
MAX I don’t
think that’s true for most young people – and not just
young people in my circle. I think people have a lot going
on in their lives, and there are some deeper issues going on
here as well, which I get to in my book. I think a lot of
young people feel disempowered. I think culturally, as a
country, we maybe don’t value the voices of young people
enough.
JESSICA How
do we change that, then? Because a lot of political parties
are saying this so-called ‘missing million’ – the
million voters who don’t come out on election day – they
want to tap into that. How do they do
that?
MAX Well,
there are some specific things we can do, like introducing
civics education in school, which would allow people to
learn more about politics and encourage them to vote. But
the deeper things are a bit harder – around respecting
young people’s voices and maybe doing politics in a way
that appeals to people more. And in my book, I suggest that
one way we can get there is through talking about values a
little bit more, and in particular, values of care,
community and creativity that I think connect to the heart
as well as the head and connect to people’s everyday
experiences.
JESSICA Because
this idea of civic education – what about lowering the age
of voting to 16? What about online voting? Would those
things help engage young people in the political process, do
you think?
MAX I
think those are all proposals that need to be looked into. I
focus on civics education in the book, because that’s been
done in lots of other places pretty effectively. But I think
we should also be considering using online processes, given
how much of our lives are online
now.
JESSICA Is
that just giving young people a spark? ‘This is what
happens, this is how you do it, and this is why you should
care.’ Is that what they should get at school, do you
think?
MAX Yeah,
that’s right. It’s a spark. But we also need more than
just that spark. We need young people to feel like their
voices actually count, their voices actually matter, and
people are listening. And that’s something else I think we
need more of in politics. There’s a lot of throwaway talk
about listening. I’m not sure how much young people really
feel listened to by politicians at the
moment.
JESSICA Because
one of the other points in the book is this whole idea that
the value has been drained out of politics. What do you mean
by that?
MAX I mean
a few things. I mean that politics has become a bit
technical. It often seems like a numbers game, something
that is quite
technocratic.
JESSICA Like
polls, do you
mean?
MAX No,
not just polls. I mean, partly that, but also that a lot of
the discussion seems to be around trade-offs and pros and
cons, and all of that is important. But we also need to make
value choices about what priority areas are in politics, and
when politics becomes so technocratic, we sort of lose that
values edge. That’s one part of it. I also think we’ve
lost a general sense of direction in politics about what the
end goals of politics are. It’s become a sort of
muddle-through process a lot of the time. And I’m sure
politicians are often motivated by really noble ideals, but
I don’t think that’s always communicated to people. And
the other thing I talk about in the book is I think that
there’s been a rise in self-interestedness and selfishness
in the last 20 to 30
years.
JESSICA Hasn’t
that always been there, though, a little bit, in
politics?
MAX It’s
hard to say, and I mean actually going beyond politics, in
the society we have as a whole. And I think that’s
rebounded back on to politics, and I think it’s meant that
politicians are appealing less to what’s good for the
community, to thinking about other people, and are focusing
more on what’s in it for
ourselves.
JESSICA Because
some of the MPs who may be watching this morning may be
thinking, ‘Hang on a second. I do have values. I came into
politics to make a
difference.’
MAX Of
course,
yeah.
JESSICA Do
you think it’s perhaps not values that match your own? Do
you think it’s that? What do you say to those
guys?
MAX I think a
lot of politicians do come in with really high ideals. I
think the way politics is done doesn’t always allow those
ideals to be carried through. You heard one young person on
your clip say that they didn’t feel like politicians are
following through on promises, following through on values,
perhaps.
JESSICA Is
that MMP, do you
think?
MAX I
don’t think it’s just
MMP.
JESSICA You
think it’s a core value
system?
MAX Yeah, I
think so. And of course, politicians have a range of values.
But I’d like to see politicians talking about those more
openly, and not just talking about stale values that we’ve
heard a lot of. I mean, we have heard lots of references to
fairness or to freedom or opportunity, but I’d like to
hear a fresher debate, and that’s why I try to focus on
values like care and community and even love in the book,
because I think these are new ways of thinking about
politics.
JESSICA What would your ideal political party look like, and are some of the political parties in parliament at the moment doing that at the moment?
MAX The book isn’t really just about parliamentary politics, and so I don’t have in mind an ideal political party. I have more in mind, perhaps, an ideal political culture where everyone feels empowered, where we’re talking about politics from a values base, and we are maybe coming to different conclusions from a starting point of caring about community, creativity, values like those. But where we’re clearly talking about, yeah, our starting points and our end points and where people feel included and everyone feels like they’re listened to and are able to have a say.
JESSICA Would you like a turn yourself at some point? Is politics in your future?
MAX No. I genuinely don’t want that as part of my future. This is a book that’s designed to—
JESSICA You seem very passionate about that?
MAX No, I mean, this book is about changing political culture collectively, and I think we need to get people interested in a broader way and not just as individuals. And so part of the book is trying to create a movement outside of politics that can speak to politicians, to push them in a more values-driven direction. And I hope really great people go into politics. I hope people driven by values go into politics, and that’s part of building a better politics, but I think it’s not the whole story.
JESSICA We’ll have to leave it there, but thank you very much for your time. Really appreciate it.
MAX Thanks a
lot.
Transcript
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