Q+A: Winnie Byanyima interviewed by Corin Dann

Oxfam chief calls on NZ to do more to tackle global poverty

The head of the charity Oxfam says New Zealand could be doing more on to help alleviate poverty on a global level.

Speaking on TVNZ’s Q+A programme, Oxfam International Executive Director Winnie Byanyima told Corin Dann that rich countries like New Zealand needed to work on a global tax reform to ensure big firms paid their fair share of taxes.

“Here in New Zealand, I know about 20 companies that are very aggressive in tax-dodging, are paying almost no income tax,” she said.

She said the charity was not anti-globalisation but under the current model, wealth was not being fairly distributed.

“We can’t have a globalisation that’s based on rewarding just the owners of capital. That’s a wrong and unjust globalisation.”

She called on New Zealand to lead the way in implementing a living wage to workers.
“These are some of the things that can be done in a global economy.”

ENDS

Please find attached the full transcript of the interview and here’s the Link:

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Q + A
Episode 14
WINNIE BYANYIMA
Interviewed by CORIN DANN

CORIN Our next guest arrived in the UK as a 17-year-old refugee. She’s now the executive director of Oxfam International and the first African to head an international aid agency. Winnie Byanyima is with me now. Good morning to you.

WINNIE Good morning. Thank you for having me.

CORIN It is great to have you here. You’ve come with a message about the need for tax reform. Oxfam is a charity, but this message is one that seems to be more… Is it political? Is it a different direction for Oxfam?

WINNIE No, it isn’t. Oxfam’s mission is ‘a world without poverty’ – ‘a just world without poverty’, and we know that to tackle poverty, to end poverty, we must attack the structural causes of poverty, and they lie in this growing gap between rich and poor, this rising economic inequality. Unless we tackle it, we will not be able to end poverty. It’s political. And, yes, Oxfam is political, but in a non-partisan way. Tax is core to tackling economic inequality, because we know what’s driving economic inequality is this obsession by governments on growth, just growth, not looking at who is being touched by the growth, and it’s also businesses – big multinational companies, wealthy people dodging their taxes, not paying their fair share of taxes, driving down wages, paying peanuts to the producers who supply them, and refusing to invest back in the businesses, instead spending their money lobbying governments to give them more advantages to tax them less and so on.

CORIN Sure. So how does Oxfam bring about tax change? How does Oxfam make an international company, a global giant, pay its fair share of tax?

WINNIE Well, we are trying to, we are working hard with governments, with companies, to look at this system that is leaking – a global tax system that’s full of loopholes – loopholes created by the companies themselves lobbying governments that allow them to channel their money legally out of the places where they make their profits to tax havens and so on. So transparency’s a key way to reduce tax-dodging, and we would like, for example, a country like New Zealand, which is a rich country, to work on country-by-country reporting to support country-by-country reporting so that we know where the money is being created.

CORIN But the reality is a country like—With respect, a country like New Zealand is too scared. We are a follower when it comes to forcing big multinationals to pay their tax bills, and we are waiting for the OECD to do it.

WINNIE Well, New Zealand is a leader. It’s a leader because it’s a rich country. It’s a member of that club of rich countries, and it’s true – the OECD countries, after the global financial crisis, came together and started a process they call base erosion and profit shifting.

CORIN Some of these companies are the same size as New Zealand in terms of the finances.

WINNIE Absolutely. But working under the jurisdiction of New Zealand and other countries, and together we can work on a global corporate tax reform that is stopping this race to the bottom, that makes a country like New Zealand tax less and less to compete with others. That we must do collectively, but also individually. Every country can move towards more progressive taxation, putting the burden on the companies that make the money. Here in New Zealand, I know about 20 companies that are very aggressive in tax-dodging, are paying almost no income tax. You tell me, can you avoid paying your income tax? You – an ordinary person? Of course you can’t.

CORIN No, and it is an issue here. But as I say, to me, it feels like the New Zealand Government, and I’m sure many other governments of small countries, are intimidated by these companies and don’t want to risk upsetting consumers who use a lot of their products.

WINNIE That is why this race to the bottom has to be tackled collectively. And Oxfam is pushing for a global corporate tax body that can reign in that race to the bottom. That’s one. But, like I said, it’s also possible to tax progressively, to refuse—first of all, to require transparency, to require beneficial ownership – a register that tells you exactly who owns which company so that you can you can then follow the money and tax them. So these things can also happen at the national level.

CORIN Do you still support the model of globalisation? Is that linked with that tax system?

WINNIE Yes. We believe in a globalisation that is just, that is fair.

CORIN Neoliberalism?

WINNIE No, not neoliberalism, but a globalisation that is just, that is based on human economies – where we have a common-sense way of managing our economies. What are we talking about? We’re talking about having companies that bring benefit, not just to shareholders, but who bring benefit to their workers. New Zealand was a leader. New Zealand was the first country to implement a minimum wage before the 20th century. New Zealand then should move it from a minimum wage to a living wage that pays people who work not to live in poverty. These are some of the things that can be done in a global economy. We’re not against globalisation, but it has to be a globalisation that benefits all – workers, producers, the planet, communities. Communities must benefit. We can’t have a globalisation that’s based on rewarding just the owners of capital. That’s a wrong and unjust globalisation.

CORIN And you don’t see that as—Some will be watching and saying, ‘That’s a political statement,’ that you’re taking a political stance on this when you’re trying to also be a non-partisan charity.

WINNIE Yes, because poverty is a political problem. Poverty, injustice are rooted in powerlessness. And we talk of power, we talk of governments, we talk of companies. We ask them to do justice to ordinary people. There is no way we’re going to end poverty without being political, in that sense. We are political, but we are not partisan. We don’t support a particular political party or even a company. We speak truth to power.

CORIN And on that note, do you think it’s time for New Zealand, for example, to lift its refugee quota, do more in the world in terms of aid and those types of issues?

WINNIE Absolutely. On the question of refugees, it does break my heart. Like you said, I came to England fleeing a brutal military dictatorship. If I had arrived in England today, I’d probably be turned away like I’m seeing happening. Europe – rich Europe – closing its borders to people who are in trouble, who are fleeing for their lives. That’s not right. Yes, the rich countries need to do more. Today, my country, Uganda, very poor country, has more than a million South Sudanese refugees. We open our doors. We say, ‘Come and share what we have. We are poor, but we can’t let you die.’ That is the principle of humanity, humanitarianism, that all these countries signed on at the United Nations and are now turning their backs on.

CORIN Winnie Byanyima, we have to leave it there, unfortunately. Thank you very much for your time on Q + A this morning.

WINNIE Thank you very much.



Transcript provided by Able. www.able.co.nz

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