Q+A: Winnie Byanyima interviewed by Corin Dann
Q+A: Winnie Byanyima interviewed by Corin Dann
Oxfam chief calls on NZ to do more to tackle global poverty
The head of the charity Oxfam says New Zealand could be doing more on to help alleviate poverty on a global level.
Speaking on TVNZ’s Q+A programme, Oxfam International Executive Director Winnie Byanyima told Corin Dann that rich countries like New Zealand needed to work on a global tax reform to ensure big firms paid their fair share of taxes.
“Here in New Zealand, I know about 20 companies that are very aggressive in tax-dodging, are paying almost no income tax,” she said.
She said the charity was not anti-globalisation but under the current model, wealth was not being fairly distributed.
“We can’t have a globalisation that’s based on rewarding just the owners of capital. That’s a wrong and unjust globalisation.”
She
called on New Zealand to lead the way in implementing a
living wage to workers.
“These are some of the things
that can be done in a global economy.”
ENDS
Please find attached the full transcript of the interview and here’s the Link:
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Q +
A
Episode
14
WINNIE
BYANYIMA
Interviewed by CORIN
DANN
CORIN Our next guest
arrived in the UK as a 17-year-old refugee. She’s now the
executive director of Oxfam International and the first
African to head an international aid agency. Winnie Byanyima
is with me now. Good morning to you.
WINNIE Good
morning. Thank you for having me.
CORIN It is great
to have you here. You’ve come with a message about the
need for tax reform. Oxfam is a charity, but this message is
one that seems to be more… Is it political? Is it a
different direction for
Oxfam?
WINNIE No,
it isn’t. Oxfam’s mission is ‘a world without
poverty’ – ‘a just world without poverty’, and we
know that to tackle poverty, to end poverty, we must attack
the structural causes of poverty, and they lie in this
growing gap between rich and poor, this rising economic
inequality. Unless we tackle it, we will not be able to end
poverty. It’s political. And, yes, Oxfam is political, but
in a non-partisan way. Tax is core to tackling economic
inequality, because we know what’s driving economic
inequality is this obsession by governments on growth, just
growth, not looking at who is being touched by the growth,
and it’s also businesses – big multinational companies,
wealthy people dodging their taxes, not paying their fair
share of taxes, driving down wages, paying peanuts to the
producers who supply them, and refusing to invest back in
the businesses, instead spending their money lobbying
governments to give them more advantages to tax them less
and so on.
CORIN Sure. So how
does Oxfam bring about tax change? How does Oxfam make an
international company, a global giant, pay its fair share of
tax?
WINNIE Well,
we are trying to, we are working hard with governments, with
companies, to look at this system that is leaking – a
global tax system that’s full of loopholes – loopholes
created by the companies themselves lobbying governments
that allow them to channel their money legally out of the
places where they make their profits to tax havens and so
on. So transparency’s a key way to reduce tax-dodging, and
we would like, for example, a country like New Zealand,
which is a rich country, to work on country-by-country
reporting to support country-by-country reporting so that we
know where the money is being
created.
CORIN But
the reality is a country like—With respect, a country like
New Zealand is too scared. We are a follower when it comes
to forcing big multinationals to pay their tax bills, and we
are waiting for the OECD to do it.
WINNIE Well, New
Zealand is a leader. It’s a leader because it’s a rich
country. It’s a member of that club of rich countries, and
it’s true – the OECD countries, after the global
financial crisis, came together and started a process they
call base erosion and profit
shifting.
CORIN Some
of these companies are the same size as New Zealand in terms
of the
finances.
WINNIE Absolutely.
But working under the jurisdiction of New Zealand and other
countries, and together we can work on a global corporate
tax reform that is stopping this race to the bottom, that
makes a country like New Zealand tax less and less to
compete with others. That we must do collectively, but also
individually. Every country can move towards more
progressive taxation, putting the burden on the companies
that make the money. Here in New Zealand, I know about 20
companies that are very aggressive in tax-dodging, are
paying almost no income tax. You tell me, can you avoid
paying your income tax? You – an ordinary person? Of
course you
can’t.
CORIN No,
and it is an issue here. But as I say, to me, it feels like
the New Zealand Government, and I’m sure many other
governments of small countries, are intimidated by these
companies and don’t want to risk upsetting consumers who
use a lot of their
products.
WINNIE That
is why this race to the bottom has to be tackled
collectively. And Oxfam is pushing for a global corporate
tax body that can reign in that race to the bottom. That’s
one. But, like I said, it’s also possible to tax
progressively, to refuse—first of all, to require
transparency, to require beneficial ownership – a register
that tells you exactly who owns which company so that you
can you can then follow the money and tax them. So these
things can also happen at the national level.
CORIN Do you still
support the model of globalisation? Is that linked with that
tax
system?
WINNIE Yes.
We believe in a globalisation that is just, that is
fair.
CORIN Neoliberalism?
WINNIE No, not
neoliberalism, but a globalisation that is just, that is
based on human economies – where we have a common-sense
way of managing our economies. What are we talking about?
We’re talking about having companies that bring benefit,
not just to shareholders, but who bring benefit to their
workers. New Zealand was a leader. New Zealand was the first
country to implement a minimum wage before the 20th century.
New Zealand then should move it from a minimum wage to a
living wage that pays people who work not to live in
poverty. These are some of the things that can be done in a
global economy. We’re not against globalisation, but it
has to be a globalisation that benefits all – workers,
producers, the planet, communities. Communities must
benefit. We can’t have a globalisation that’s based on
rewarding just the owners of capital. That’s a wrong and
unjust
globalisation.
CORIN And
you don’t see that as—Some will be watching and saying,
‘That’s a political statement,’ that you’re taking a
political stance on this when you’re trying to also be a
non-partisan charity.
WINNIE Yes,
because poverty is a political problem. Poverty, injustice
are rooted in powerlessness. And we talk of power, we talk
of governments, we talk of companies. We ask them to do
justice to ordinary people. There is no way we’re going to
end poverty without being political, in that sense. We are
political, but we are not partisan. We don’t support a
particular political party or even a company. We speak truth
to power.
CORIN And
on that note, do you think it’s time for New Zealand, for
example, to lift its refugee quota, do more in the world in
terms of aid and those types of
issues?
WINNIE Absolutely.
On the question of refugees, it does break my heart. Like
you said, I came to England fleeing a brutal military
dictatorship. If I had arrived in England today, I’d
probably be turned away like I’m seeing happening. Europe
– rich Europe – closing its borders to people who are in
trouble, who are fleeing for their lives. That’s not
right. Yes, the rich countries need to do more. Today, my
country, Uganda, very poor country, has more than a million
South Sudanese refugees. We open our doors. We say, ‘Come
and share what we have. We are poor, but we can’t let you
die.’ That is the principle of humanity, humanitarianism,
that all these countries signed on at the United Nations and
are now turning their backs on.
CORIN Winnie
Byanyima, we have to leave it there, unfortunately. Thank
you very much for your time on Q + A this
morning.
WINNIE Thank you very
much.
Transcript
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www.able.co.nz